Let’s Have Another Round
4/29/16 - In a special four-way crossover episode with Another Round, we discuss the latest on Ivanka’s dad, is the Pope a Bernie bro? This week in menstruation, cis dudes experience periods for themselves (sorta). Then, Another Round hosts Heben and Tracy share their podcast love story and pump up song. And spoken sound art from musician Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs.
Transcript below.
Listen on Apple Podcasts | Stitcher | Overcast | Pocket Casts | Spotify.
CREDITS
Producer: Gina Delvac
Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn
LINKS
Ivanka Trump (and brother Malfoy Eric) couldn’t vote for their dad in New York primary, but he won anyway
Pope as the ultimate Bernie bro
LA people, go check out Carolyn’s performance at Skylight Books, Sat, April 30.
TRANSCRIPT: ANOTHER ROUND
Gina: Hey, this is CYG producer Gina Delvac and this is a very special crossover edition of Call Your Girlfriend. We have the bad-ass ladies of Another Round here, Heben . . .
Heben: Hey!
Gina: And Tracy.
Tracy: Boom.
Gina: So if you like what you hear, or duh, you probably already listen to Another Round, but go check them out at buzzfeed.com/anotherround and you'll get to hear Amina and Ann on their show too. Stay tuned, in the middle of the episode we're also going to have a very special drop-in appearance from musician Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs.
Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend.
Ann: A podcast for long-distance besties everywhere.
Aminatou: I'm Aminatou Sow.
Ann: And I'm Ann Friedman. On this week's agenda, ugh, we are here with Heaven and Tracy from Another Round!
Aminatou: [Howls]
Ann: Very special crossover episode, first in probably podcast history, right? Like just the first ever.
Aminatou: I mean power crossover episode.
Ann: [Laughs] Right. We've got a little check-in with Ivanka Trump, our favorite Trump. Hmm, maybe not anymore. Some questions about the Pope, is he a Bernie Bro? And this week in menstruation, dudes experience periods for the first time.
[Theme Song]
(1:40)
Aminatou: Heaven and Tracy, we're so excited that you're here with us.
Heben: Hey!
Aminatou: Thanks for having us in your studio!
Tracy: Thanks for coming to see us in our studio.
Ann: I know. We're here with you technically, right?
Tracy: Well, this is now a communal space.
Aminatou: Everybody just looks so good, flawless melanin, just . . .
Tracy: Oh my gosh.
Heben: Melanin popping.
Aminatou: Beautiful babes. We're drinking, having a good time.
Heben: Hey.
Aminatou: We just want to get into some of our hot topics really quickly.
Heben: Let's do it.
Aminatou: Ann, what's the first thing we're talking about?
Ann: It's been a while since we've checked in with Ivanka Trump who is . . .
Aminatou: Big fan of Call Your Girlfriend. That's why we check in with her.
Heben: Is she?
Ann: One of her minions is a big fan of Call Your Girlfriend apparently.
Aminatou: Yeah, so it's always on ivankatrump.com. They're like "Best podcast, Call Your Girlfriend."
Heben: [Laughs] Nice.
Aminatou: We're like which intern listens to this?
Ann: But fundamentally this is a problem of Ivanka's personal brand and business being at odds with her father's campaign.
Aminatou: So Ivanka's had like two problems recently.
Ann: Just two?
Aminatou: One -- well one, they had to recall all of her scarves.
Heben: I'm sorry, what?
Aminatou: So you know she's a business lady.
Heben: What are her scarves?
Aminatou: So she just sells these scarves in stores.
Heben: Like what kind of stores?
Aminatou: I don't know, like . . .
Heben: Is this like a K-Mart line? Is this a Burgdorf line?
Ann: She's trying to Goopify.
Aminatou: She's trying to Goopify so she . . .
Tracy: What?
Ann: You know, like the Gwyneth Paltrow . . .
Aminatou: Gwyneth Paltrow, Goop.
Ann: Of selling things and also offering advice.
Aminatou: Lifestyle brands.
Ann: Lifestyle brand.
Heben: That's a white girl thing.
Aminatou: Let me explain white things to you. First of all there's Goop. That's all you need to know. That's all you need to know. Now you know.
Heben: Up to speed.
Tracy: But there's a lot of white celebrities that have this whole lifestyle brand.
Heben: Like Jessica Alba . . .
Ann: Reese Witherspoon.
Aminatou: Reese Witherspoon, that one that's married to Van Wilder.
Ann: Wait, who's married to Van -- oh.
Aminatou: Serena Van der Woodsen.
Ann: Serena Van der Woodsen.
Heben: I don't know who that is.
Tracy: Gossip Girl? Sorry.
Aminatou: White things.
Heben: What is Ivanka's situation?
Aminatou: So Ivanka, all of her scarves got recalled because they were made in China and they were lighting on fire.
Ann: They were a fire risk.
Heben: [Laughs]
Aminatou: I know, it was a fire risk.
Heben: They're flammable?
Aminatou: Yeah, highly flammable. You know, it's like somebody lights a cigarette near you and it's like RIP.
Heben: What?
(3:55)
Aminatou: So the FTC was like bring them back. [Laughter]
Ann: Ivanka is already embattled, okay? She is trying to save her Goop-style brand from her father and meanwhile flaming scarves.
Aminatou: You know she got investigated for that so . . .
Heben: I have a question.
Tracy: Heben has her hand raised.
Heben: So was she like a big personality lifestyle situation before her dad started . . .
Aminatou: Oh, huge.
Heben: So I just didn't know about this? Okay.
Aminatou: Yeah. You know how sometimes your Internet doesn't cross with other people's Internet?
Heben: Absolutely.
Aminatou: Your shopping doesn't cross with other people's shopping.
Heben: Oh, certainly.
Aminatou: Ivanka, like huge shoe line.
Heben: Okay. So they don't have them in Marshal's which is why I haven't seen them.
Aminatou: You know they might have them in Marshal's.
Heben: What?
Aminatou: They're probably just not your style, you know? That's a thing.
Heben: Fair. Possible.
Aminatou: It's like you probably don't wear the Jessica Simpson shoes. Same thing.
Heben: I think they're really cute.
Tracy: I actually have some.
Ann: To make the opposite assumption where I was like they're not as well-stocked as the Jessica Simpson line.
Aminatou: I know, but so she sells that. She's like a for real business woman in her own realm.
Heben: Well go ahead Ivanka.
Aminatou: Except that now karma's back.
Heben: Yeah.
Aminatou: But the other best thing that happened, the state of New York has closed primaries which means that you have to be registered for the party that's having a primary to vote.
Heben: Oh yeah.
Tracy: So I was talking to my friend who just became a citizen about this and she's like "They just signed us up and I for some reason registered as an independent." I was like Imani, what are you doing?
Aminatou: Wow.
Ann: But that makes sense if you don't know.
Tracy: Yeah, yeah, if you don't know that makes sense. But she's like literally no one explained to me that New York has a closed primary and you have to be in a certain . . .
Aminatou: Well they don't explain a lot of things to you.
Tracy: She's just like I don't understand my . . .
Aminatou: At least she's registered to vote. [Laughs]
Tracy: I'm like weren't you tested on this? And she's like no.
Aminatou: No, they don't test you on that. They ask you if you've watched Hamilton then they're like citizenship, yes, no.
Ann: That is not what they ask you.
Aminatou: That's how they roll.
Heben: But it's like a very convoluted process. It's a little bit hard to figure out how your election goes in the times that aren't just like general election.
Aminatou: Exactly. So New York state has a closed primary. If you're not registered you can't vote. But the Trump -- two of the Trump children, Ivanka and then the one that looks like an evil blonde, Eric maybe?
Tracy: Oh my gosh, can we talk about . . .
Ann: I love how you both are whispering.
Aminatou: Draco Malfoy.
Tracy: Oh my god!
Heben: Those two sounds are terrifying.
Tracy: The most distressing thing is that . . .
Aminatou: Disney villain terrifying.
Tracy: One is way uglier than the other.
Aminatou: I know!
(6:15)
Tracy: It's like you see one and it gets worse.
Aminatou: I know, and we're agreeing on which one it is too.
Tracy: Yes, we already know. [Laughs]
Ann: They do look like Disney villains.
Heben: They do. They do.
Ann: It's a little terrifying.
Heben: You're never going to make it into the tournament.
Aminatou: But listen, they can't vote for their dad because they didn't switch their party registration to Republican on time.
Ann: I mean . . .
Aminatou: And they had a whole year to do it.
Ann: That's delicious.
Aminatou: They literally had a whole year to do it and they've known forever. And the other best part of this is it means they were registered Democrats.
Heben: Oh.
Aminatou: And there's a tiny part of me that wants to believe that they never intended to vote for their father.
Heben: Ooh!
Ann: No, exactly.
Aminatou: Dun, dun, dun. She's like I'm not switching my registration for this.
Heben: Why? Why do that?
Aminatou: Because she's probably going to vote for Bernie.
Heben: Why do you think that?
Ann: Oh my god, don't even predict that. Really?
Heben: I love this narrative. I love . . .
Aminatou: I love a conspiracy theory.
Heben: I'm into it.
Aminatou: And now she can blame it on some . . . you know how her dad's gullible. She's like "Ugh, we didn't get the paperwork" or "I had to do it three years ago."
Ann: Well he needs her so much that it's not like he's going to call her out on it. He absolutely needs her to stand onstage and . . .
Heben: What do you mean needs her?
Ann: I mean you might have heard him say some slightly offensive things about women.
Heben: Sure, sure.
Tracy: And he's also said creepy things about her.
Ann: Exactly.
Tracy: Ugh, his daughter. Since she was a baby.
Ann: If she were like "I want no part of this," you know, I don't know, I think he needs -- in the way that a lot of white people with reprehensible racist views need the one black person on their team who's like "You're not that bad!" There is like, I don't know what, a cover token kind of thing and she fills that role for him.
Heben: Interesting.
Ann: Because sorry Melania.
Aminatou: It's just called having a Ben Carson on your team I guess. [Laughs] But that's also why he . . .
Tracy: Aww Ben.
Aminatou: Yeah, aww Ben.
Heben: Man, he's just like a little puppy that you . . .
Aminatou: He tried to be our first hotep president. Don't aww Ben him. No. [Laughter] No.
Heben: You know what? You right. You right.
Tracy: The Popeye's organization. [Laughter]
Heben: Did you hear him say the Popeye's organization?
Aminatou: You know, then he lied about being . . .
Heben: Speaking of Popeye's, you know it. Nobody has ever called it the Popeye's organization.
Aminatou: Maybe in the Illuminati that's what they call it.
Heben: Nobody who's ever been to a Popeye's has called it an organization.
Tracy: Ooh, I'm hungry. I'm going to go to the . . .
Aminatou: The Popeye's organization. [Laughter]
Tracy: Anyways, anyways.
Heben: I'm listening. I'm listening.
Ann: So I think Ivanka's playing a long game.
Aminatou: Yeah, she's just like plausible deniability. She was like "It's my dad so I had to be there but I never voted for him."
Heben: I'm so -- I'm so confused by . . .
Tracy: This is, listen, I've accepted this version as my truth. I'm into it. Absolutely. [Laughter]
Heben: I'm surprised to hear you think the Trump children are not in his corner necessarily.
Aminatou: So I obviously don't have any evidence for this beyond my own conspiracy theory.
Heben: I love a good random T that I've pulled out of nowhere.
Aminatou: But, you know, everybody has problematic people in their family right?
Heben: That's true.
Aminatou: And it's not like you can just fight them in public. It's like what are you supposed to do? What do you do when your dad is also your creepy uncle?
Ann: Well it was also the person that got you your job. She didn't pick a corporate career that was separate from her family. She used him to get a great job that she probably -- she probably could've gotten a great job elsewhere, but you know, she's like business married to her dad. Oh, man. Yeah, bad. [Groaning] Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. But she has professional ties to him.
Heben: Oh my gosh.
Aminatou: And she has information that we don't have, right? Because it's really unclear to us whether Donald Trump ever was running for real or not. It's like now clearly he is.
Heben: Yeah.
Aminatou: But at the beginning it's like god only knows what the conversation in their family was like, right?
Ann: She was like "You go have fun with your campaign," and now she's like what do I do?
(9:50)
Aminatou: And then now they're in it and he says offensive things about her and even her own family, like she's married to a very orthodox Jewish person.
Heben: Oh my goodness.
Aminatou: And he's so offensive on every level and it's why would you do that to yourself?
Heben: I just developed a theory.
Aminatou: Tell us. Tell us.
Heben: I feel like Ivanka and Malfoy . . .
Aminatou: Uh-oh, brother Malfoy.
Heben: Brother Malfoy [Laughs] are basically black people during the OJ Simpson trial.
Everyone: Whoa!
Tracy: Stop.
Heben: Boom. Hear me out though. Hear me out though.
Tracy: I'm listening.
Heben: Black folks back in the day, we knew he did it but there was like a bigger picture we had to think of. There was a whole overarching, you know, we need to win this. We need to win this for black people because we've been screwed over.
Aminatou: Police brutality, Heben. That's the bigger . . .
Heben: Right, we've been screwed over. [Laughter] Like we've been screwed over so many times, here's a black man who could very well be . . .
Tracy: So what's the complement to that in the Trump situation?
Heben: Okay, so they're like outwardly got to support them. Got to do it for my family; got to do it for my culture.
Tracy: Okay.
Heben: Inwardly, they don't vote with him.
Tracy: Can I say . . .
Aminatou: Yeah.
Ann: Oh yeah.
Heben: They don't vote for him.
Aminatou: Oh definitely on this.
Ann: Yeah, on this? We've never had a non-explicit episode. [Laughter]
Tracy: Perfect.
Aminatou: Hang in there Ivanka. We are praying for you, BB.
Tracy: Keep your head up girl.
Aminatou: Keep your head up.
Tracy: Tupac cares if don't nobody else care.
Ann: Okay, oh my god. [Laughter]
Everyone: [Singing]
Aminatou: She's listening to that right now.
Ann: She is.
Aminatou: That's her pump-up music every time she has to go on . . .
[Music]
Ann: Okay.
(11:50)
Aminatou: Okay, another person we need to check in on that we're, ugh, just the Pope.
Ann: Okay, I don't have as complex feelings about the Pope. I just don't like him.
Aminatou: To be clear . . .
Tracy: The Pope kind of scares me to be honest.
Heben: I have zero thoughts about the Pope.
Aminatou: We don't like the Pope because the Pope has bamboozled everyone.
Tracy: Run him up. Led astray.
Aminatou: So especially like liberals. Led astray.
Heben: What do you mean?
Aminatou: So here is the deal with the Pope: he is the head of an organization that still won't let women join. He creates this moral message about the economy but doesn't care about women's bodies and independence and we're also supposed to ride for him.
Heben: Wait, sorry, what is the moral message about the economy? What is he saying about women's bodies?
Ann: I mean just that poverty is real bad and if you're a moral person you should care about inequality in the country and like most people struggling to get by.
Aminatou: Yeah.
Ann: Which is true, but you know, the fact that that comes with a side of sexism.
Aminatou: Don't have abortions.
Ann: Yeah. There are plenty of things to like about him in comparison to other recent Popes, and certainly in comparison to other religious figures.
Aminatou: We're just woke about the Pope.
Ann: And yet everyone gives him a pass on this other stuff. That's the thing.
Aminatou: And Adele Stan who writes for The American Prospect, is one of my favorite feminist writers, just wrote this great piece: Is Pope Francis a Bernie Bro?
Heben: What does that mean?
Aminatou: The answer is yes.
Heben: What does that mean?
Ann: We have to explain the invitation.
Aminatou: So here's the context: the Vatican invited Bernie to speak and it was so shady because at first he was like "I'm going to speak at the Vatican." And everybody is like "Oh my god, if the Pope invited him then he's the blessed one." [Laughter] And then the Vatican was like "Pump the brakes, we didn't invite him. He invited himself."
Tracy: Yo!
Heben: You can invite yourself to the Vatican?
Aminatou: Girl.
Ann: If you yell loud enough apparently.
Aminatou: The whole thing was so shady and then they came back and they were like "Actually it looks like this one American cardinal invited him. But anyway he can come but we're not endorsing him." It was like the whole . . .
Heben: Control your cardinals. Like what are you doing?
(13:50)
Aminatou: Yeah, the whole thing was sketchy.
Heben: Does the Pope generally endorse people?
Aminatou: So interesting question that you would ask. The Pope does not endorse people but the Pope as the leader of one of the largest religions, his opinion carries a lot of weight.
Heben: No, definitely.
Aminatou: And this is the second time in recent history that a pope has meddled into US politics.
Heben: Interesting.
Aminatou: So when Geraldine Ferraro, shout-out congresswoman from Queens, she was on the Democratic ticket as the VP.
Ann: 1984?
Aminatou: 1984. The Pope came out really forcefully against that being like "I don't know that it's okay to put a pro-choice person in this position."
Heben: Wow.
Aminatou: So it's not lost on me that now that we have another woman running for president. I'm like Vatican, you're not even from here. Stop . . .
Tracy: You don't even go here! You don't go to school here! [Laughter]
Ann: Exactly.
Aminatou: You don't go here. Why are you in our politics? But it's like also for me this part of Bernie's message that's been really hard to digest, you know, this I 100% agree with economic inequality. I'm like you're right, break up the banks even though we don't know how. Tell people. But in this super-progressive campaign there's not a message that is geared towards female independence specifically and they're not really talking about reproductive rights. They're not talking about . . .
Tracy: What has the Bernie camp said about that?
Aminatou: Not a lot.
Tracy: About reproductive anything?
Aminatou: When they released their healthcare plan the first time, and I'm not misspeaking, there was not really a lot about women's healthcare specifically. And it's like how can you be part of the revolution . . .
Tracy: Right, when you miss half the people.
Aminatou: When you don't talk about this. But, you know, everybody is seduced by the economic inequality message which to be clear is incredibly powerful and real. But, you know, it's like when you're a woman you're really acutely aware of how all those things play out in your whole life and how having independence to make decisions for yourself and your body, that's one way to lift yourself out of poverty. That's one way to not be dependent on all these systems. And so to me this has been really frustrating. It's just like yeah, like nothing changes. They're all in cahoots together.
(16:00)
Tracy: Damn. Also I still don't understand we have two Popes on the earth?
Heben: I don't understand what you just said. What does that mean?
Aminatou: So that guy's not Pope anymore, Benedict. You're talking about Benedict?
Tracy: Listen, we had a Pope Benedict and now we've got this motherfucking Pope.
Heben: Which one was the creepy German one?
Ann: Benedict.
Aminatou: He had to quit. Well he didn't have to, he just . . .
Ann: Paparazzi.
Aminatou: I love him. He used to wear these Gucci loafers. Girl don't talk badly about Benedict.
Tracy: I just fucked your bitch, some bitches . . . hey! [Laughter]
Heben: Pope Benedict fucked your bitch in some Gucci flip-flops probably.
Aminatou: I mean that's literally why he had to quit.
Ann: Literally.
Heben: I believe that is what Future said he did.
Aminatou: That's, yeah.
Heben: No, but I just mean first of all he's creepy as fuck.
Aminatou: So you're like Popes shouldn't be alive at the same time?
Heben: Yes! Why is this overlap of the Pope . . . [Laughter]
Ann: Okay, a llama, a llama situation.
Aminatou: Two go in, one comes out. No, but she's right.
Heben: A llama?
Aminatou: The Dalai Lama.
Ann: Dalai Lama. That . . .
Aminatou: Not alpaca.
Ann: One L. One L.
Tracy: I hear you, Ann. I hear you.
Aminatou: You are right. It's always like one dies then we're like which one of these fools are we elevating? That's fair.
Tracy: I just think it's a little weird.
Ann: Sometimes you get fired though apparently.
Tracy: I think that's a little weird, how can he get fired from the Pope position? I mean if you're not . . .
Aminatou: He quit because he had a looming schedule.
Tracy: That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.
Aminatou: I know.
Tracy: Why is the Catholic Church not concerned about that? There's a scandalous Pope on the loose.
Ann: This goes back directly to our current Pope -- current Pope -- not caring about his own house. I feel like there's all this stuff with sexual abuse survivors that he could be doing.
Tracy: Absolutely.
Ann: And that is one of those things where I'm like yeah, I think it's great that you are speaking out about the refugee crisis in Syria, good job, but also look at what is happening . . .
Aminatou: What's going on in your own house.
(17:45)
Ann: That you have direct control over.
Tracy: Absolutely.
Ann: Like the Pope cannot single-handedly resolve a refugee crisis. He can single-handedly resolve an abuse crisis in his church.
Heben: Right.
Ann: And that's the kind of stuff that makes me so angry, the stuff about yeah, the way women are treated in the church? There are all these groups of dissident nuns that he's like yeah, yeah, yeah, not hearing it. And so . . .
Aminatou: But that's how he gets away with it is he just points to another, bigger, inexplicable problem.
Tracy: Hey, what's that over there?
Aminatou: Yeah.
Tracy: Refugee crisis.
Aminatou: Like if you don't give money to this cause you don't need to be here.
Heben: When I watched Spotlight, the Academy Award winning film about the Boston-specific area about the Catholic Church crisis I didn't have that experience with churches where it was very institutionalized where there's this level and then all the . . .
Ann: All the hierarchy.
Aminatou: But that's literally what the Catholic Church is. It's an institution.
Heben: Yeah, it's very, very institutionalized. I experienced a church tat was very different from that so I didn't have quite the same understanding where there'd be parents on the -- in the movies who'd be like "I'm just excited that my kid was having an experience with a real leadership of church thoughtful . . ." Like people in my life who are thoughtful church-going people. So I didn't have that experience so I'm always curious about people's relationships to the Pope because it seems like a much bigger thing than it is in my life even though my family is super religious and does care about the Pope but just not in the same hierarchical way.
Aminatou: He's just so wack to me. I'm like listen, if you want to have opinions . . .
Heben: Are you Catholic?
Aminatou: No, I am not Catholic.
Heben: You're Muslim right?
Aminatou: My family is Muslim. I am -- there's no better way to drive Muslim people crazy than saying "My family is Muslim." [Laughter] A conversation I have with many an Uber driver.
Ann: That's real though.
Heben: Oh my god.
Aminatou: It's just for religious people of all sorts, but in this country it's specifically Christian people whether they're Catholic or Evangelical, I'm like you know what? If you want to be part of an institution that has all this power over our culture than you should pay taxes. I am happy for you to meddle in our politics all you want, because they do it every single Sunday.
Tracy: That's true.
Aminatou: I'm like then you should pay taxes and stop pretending that you're a non-profit. You know, whatever the Pope says goes for many, many people. Same thing with a ton of pastors in this country.
(20:00)
Tracy: Yeah.
Aminatou: And they just hide behind this veneer of being impartial and it's not true. They influence our politics. They influence our culture. They influence a ton of policy and we're just supposed to smile and take it and that's just not okay with me.
Tracy: This makes me think of Creflo Dollar.
Aminatou: Oh.
Ann: Oh yeah.
Aminatou: Been trying to get that plan forever.
Tracy: Yeah. So Creflo Dollar, first of all he's a pastor. He's a black pastor whose last name is Dollar, okay?
Heben: Very Gospel.
Tracy: Right.
Aminatou: That's very Gospel.
Tracy: This is not a Tyler Perry script; this is real life. He's the pastor of a super church in what, Atlanta? Probably.
Aminatou: Yeah, probably.
Tracy: This sounds like some Atlanta shit.
Aminatou: He has a jet.
Tracy: So he got his jet? He got it?
Aminatou: He got the jet.
Ann: Praise the Lord.
Tracy: His congregation, they launched a campaign or whatever to buy a G-whatever, like jet that Jay-Z . . .
Aminatou: G-6.
Tracy: A G-6.
Heben: Okay.
Tracy: Because he needed it for like his mission work. A G-6 jet. And so . . .
Heben: What is his mission work? Like meeting other rappers?
Aminatou: Exactly.
Tracy: Great question. Fantastic question.
Aminatou: It's like going to the same tailor as many a rapper.
Ann: So the mission of the Lord can flow through him.
Heben: Sure, sure.
Tracy: You need a G-6 for that.
Ann: You do.
Heben: So is that something you're familiar with in your church experience Tracy?
Tracy: No, I went to a very, very -- not very, very, but I went to a pretty small church but we have like super churches in Louisville.
Heben: Yeah.
Tracy: And even from like the age of six I'm like okay, when I go to church they preach about doing for the community and not greed, indulgence, whatever the thing is. Obviously I don't go to church anymore.
Aminatou: You're like I forgot the word.
Tracy: Right, I've literally forgotten the words. But then you look and you're like why is the pastor driving a car that costs more than my college education?
Aminatou: Yeah, if your pastor comes in a Maybach maybe we need to reevaluate things.
Tracy: Right. This is a real thing. This is a real thing.
Heben: Oh my god.
(21:50)
Tracy: And congregations are willing to pony up so much money because they're just like well this is what I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to support the man who's leading this flock or whatever which makes no sense at all.
Heben: Wait, so you said the Pope is a Bernie bro?
Aminatou: Yes.
Heben: I feel like we've strayed from that.
Tracy: We did.
Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend.
Heben: Why is the Pope a Bernie bro?
Ann: Well this goes back to the Bernie Sanders audience with the Pope, a highly . . . I don't know, I mean not everyone can get one of those. And also them being like whoa, whoa, he invited himself. That's what we're talking about.
Heben: Interesting.
Ann: But what's interesting, so I grew up very, very Catholic. My family is super Catholic. My parents were like whatever the Pope says, great. Yes. Awesome. They will never, ever, ever vote for an abortionist anti-family whatever like Bernie Sanders no matter what. So I see it more as like the Pope is real hot right now. It's like one of those things where it's like oh yeah . . .
Aminatou: I have an audience with the Pope today.
Ann: Totally, totally. And something for someone without a lot of international experience, like a nice little checkbox right? Like a photo op with the Pope.
Aminatou: Yeah, it's like he finally got a passport. He's like catching it. [Laughter]
Ann: It would make me equally angry though if people were really excited about the Pope hanging out with Hillary. I just want someone to check the Pope. That's all I want.
Aminatou: Yeah, it's like just take care of your own house. Why are you out here?
Tracy: Sweep around your own front door.
Aminatou: Yeah, I'm like why're you out here? Why're you out here? The Pope. Okay. Moving on from the Pope to this week in menstruation.
Tracy: Yay!
Aminatou: This week in menstruation we watched a really funny video on maybe a website that you know, BuzzFeed.
Heben: What's that?
Ann: Have you guys heard of BuzzFeed?
Heben: How you spell it?
Aminatou: Do you guys know BuzzFeed? Capital B, capital F.
Tracy: It's got a capital F.
Ann: I love that we're the same point on . . .
Heben: I'll Google it.
Aminatou: BoozeFeed. You know, a provider of many a viral video. I watched this one called men experiencing periods and so many people sent it to us and they're just like "Isn't this great? Isn't it wonderful?"
Ann: Explain how it goes down.
(23:50)
Heben: Yeah, how do men experience periods?
Aminatou: Exactly. It's such a mess.
Ann: Some men do experience periods. This was men who have never experienced one.
Aminatou: Yes, cis men experiencing periods. And so it's three dudes who I guess work at BuzzFeed Motion Pictures maybe, unclear, one of the umbrella video farms. This really cool lady makes a device for them where she puts this beet juice and corn starch mix to mimic periods and then they have to wear it in their underwear and it just like squirts blood.
Ann: At unpredictable intervals.
Tracy: Everywhere. Yes.
Aminatou: Unpredictable intervals. And so they start off the video saying they're going to do it for one day and then through the magic of video decide they need to do it for more days, because guess what? Periods last more than one day.
Heben: What?
Aminatou: So they go through the whole thing. It's like they ruin all of their pants. This one guy, he bleeds for two seconds and the pants are ruined already.
Tracy: Like a huge like . . .
Aminatou: Just like . . .
Tracy: Texas-sized . . .
Aminatou: Yeah, of blood. Yeah.
Ann: There's an incident with bloody underwear left on the bathroom floor just abandoned, which I don't know. Everyone I feel has maybe abandoned a pair of underwear in a place you didn't want to abandon them because you're like this is beyond saving.
Aminatou: Oh my god, yeah, no. I'm like trash. So it was interesting to watch and then listen to them just like honestly bitch and moan about it the whole time.
Ann: But also get kind of emotional, like I did not know this is what women in my life are dealing with.
Aminatou: No, totally. They got emotional. They got angry. I cannot believe that you -- I mean honestly I can believe it, I have a brother, but that you can live in such close proximity to women and not understand how their bodies work, you know?
Tracy: Yes.
Aminatou: And I remember one of them was like yeah, I've definitely used having your period as a slur or whatever like in a derogatory way. And he's like now I know not to do that anymore because of this. Just the empathy gap that was there was really fascinating. But also the other thing is clearly it was done for the video effect: they complained about it so much. I was like imagine -- I was like this is the problem, right? Is men think when we're on our periods we're complaining all the time.
Tracy: Constantly, non-stop.
(26:00)
Aminatou: And I'm like actually I am bleeding near you all the time and you have no idea. [Laughter]
Ann: It's true, sitting in a meeting, chunk.
Aminatou: My cycle is problematic. I'm like yeah, I just passed three blood clots talking to you and you don't even know about it.
Tracy: Didn't even flinch.
Aminatou: We are playing through the pain this entire time. We are showing up to work on time. We're ruining our clothes and we're doing it with a smile. And, you know, these video boys couldn't do it for ten minutes. [Laughter]
Heben: Right.
Aminatou: That's like not okay with me.
Ann: When I saw it I was like you know how -- I don't know what happened in all of your schools when they were like "Here's what puberty is" or whatever but I was like . . .
Aminatou: I went to Christian school. We did not have that.
Ann: Oh, we had . . . Catholic School had a very stripped-down version of explanations around everything. But I will say think about what it would be like if anyone who was probably not getting a period were assigned one of these devices and was like "You're going to get your period for a week because this is what's happening to all your classmates and maybe you should learn some empathy about it." I don't know, I don't really expect that to happen anytime soon, but I did think about what if those men had had that experience at a way younger age?
Aminatou: Yeah, right? And just had more compassion. Just had more compassion for it. It was really -- it was a hard thing to watch for me. I could not believe that grown, adult men don't understand this.
Tracy: Yeah. One of the things that always sits in the back of my mind whenever you have a situation whether it's a BuzzFeed video, or I know Tyra Banks did this a lot on her TV show.
Aminatou: Oh my god, fat suit Tyra Banks? [Laughs]
Tracy: You already know exactly where I'm going. But it's this idea that unless somebody can physically experience the pain or the inconvenience of life of a marginalized person for themselves then they just don't believe that it's real, you know/
Aminatou: For a lot of people yes, it's like they have to experience it to figure it out or they have to have . . . there are all these studies that show that men who have daughters start paying their employees better or . . .
Tracy: When Jay-Z had a daughter and he was like "I'm not going to say this anymore."
Heben: For sure.
(28:00)
Aminatou: Barack Obama or the Republican senators who have gay sons, like all of a sudden they're open to LGBT stuff. But I'm like yeah, that same senator, probably not going to have a black son.
Tracy: You know . . .
Aminatou: So does that mean you're never going to care about issues that happen to black kids? Or even in the workplace sometimes where the lack of mentorship that black women have, it's this idea that, you know, you're like the people that are in positions to make decisions, they're never going to see themselves in me. Like some white dude, you know, who's wealthy, he's never going to look at me and be like "Amina reminds me of myself. I'm going to give her a boost."
Ann: Totally.
Aminatou: But I see that happening with a ton of my -- you know?
Tracy: Yes.
Aminatou: It's like the first job I had out of college, my boss essentially . . . it was me and a cohort of four other boys and he invested in all of them and not me. And I'm the only star now on that team.
Heben: Ooh!
Ann: Made it without him.
Aminatou: No, totally, bet on the wrong horse. But I remember kind of confronting him about it later and I was like "Well, you didn't . . . you just didn't think I was going to make it or whatever." And he was like "You know, you just didn't need as much help as them."
Heben: Oh wow.
Aminatou: He tried to spin it that way. And I was like "No, that's not fair. It's because you literally looked at all of them and you were like yeah . . ." He's like "Yeah, that person, if he applied himself more or I gave him more attention." So it's like when you extrapolate that in these other scenarios . . .
Ann: Yep.
Aminatou: That is really -- it's really scary to me.
Heben: So depressing.
Tracy: It really is depressing.
Heben: Like I've been taught to see my humanity in you. We had no choice.
Tracy: Never thought about the other . . .
Heben: Yeah.
Aminatou: It's like for me unless I'm watching around Shonda Rhimes nobody's . . . [Laughter] It's like how do I get in that room? And she goes "Oh, yeah, you. If I invest in you you're going to make it." Or Oprah, you know? But that's the two. There's nowhere else.
[Music and Ads]
(33:05)
Gina: Hey, it's Gina Delvac again, the producer of CYG. More from Heben and Tracy in just a minute but I want to give a quick plug that Saturday, April 30th, so maybe today depending on when you're listening to the show is Independent Bookstore Day. Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs, a.k.a. singer, songwriter, general lady bad-ass, friend of the show. [Music] Do you remember this? Yeah, she made that for us! Hey Carolyn.
Carolyn: Hey Gina.
Gina: So you've been working with the creators of the book Rad American Women: A to Z and this is a picture book. It could be for kids but it's also this incredible telling of women whose stories are not always told but we know are incredible icons with gorgeous illustration. It's been out for a little bit. What's this special insert that you've made for Independent Bookstore Day?
Carolyn: Yeah, Rad American Women by Kate Schatz and Miriam Klein Stahl came out last year and I made a companion seven inch for Independent Book Store day. Side A is a sing-a-long invocation and Side X is a sound piece featuring Angela Davis, Rebecca Solnit, Alice Begg (?), Charlyne Yi and the CYG coven.
Gina: Let's take a listen to that track right now then we'll hear more from Ann, Amina, Heben, and Tracy from the special CYG/Another Round crossover!
[Clip Starts]
People: [Repeating] X is for . . .
Female: The women whose names we don't know.
Female: It's for the women we haven't learned about yet.
Female: And the women whose stories we will never read.
Kids: X is for the women whose voices weren't heard.
Female: For the women who aren't in the history of books or the halls of fame or on postage stamps and coins.
Female: For the women who didn't get credit for their ideas and inventions.
Female: Who couldn't own property or sign their own names.
Ann: The women who weren't taught to read or write.
Female: But managed to communicate anywhere.
Female: Who weren't allowed to work but still supported their families.
Female: Or who worked all day . . .
Gina: But weren't paid as much as the men.
Female: X is for the radical histories that didn't get recorded.
Female: X is for our mothers, our matriarchs, our ancestors.
Kids: The nurses and neighbors and aunties and teachers.
Aminatou: The women who made huge changes and the women who made dinner.
Ann: X is for the hands that built and shared and wrote and fought.
Female: The bodies that birthed and worked and strained to keep going.
M: The feet that walked, ran, jumped, and balanced.
Female: The minds that dreamed and desired. The hearts that loved.
Everyone: X is also for all that's happening now.
Kid: And all that is still to come.
Female: X is for the women in homes and offices and fields and labs and classrooms.
(36:15)
Female: Who invent and transform and build and create.
Female: X is for all we don't know about the past but X is also for the future.
Female: X marks the spot where we stand today.
Kid: What will you do to make the world rad?
[Clip Ends]
Aminatou: We have a lot of questions for you ladies.
Heben: Bring 'em on!
Ann: So many. Okay.
Aminatou: What do you have Ann?
Ann: Oh my god, I have -- this is my . . . and part of it is because we're here because we do something really similar. You guys have a conversation with each other about stuff that matters to you and we do the same thing but we kind of do it off in our own little independent universe, like literally in our own closets or whatever and you guys . . .
Aminatou: DIY, baby.
Ann: You guys have built this operation and made this whole wonderful thing and created this community kind of under the umbrella of BuzzFeed. You know, you guys both have full-time jobs doing this but also doing other stuff there. And so I'm really curious about the pros and cons of, you know, making your own thing that you guys are so -- your stamp is all over it within the context of this bigger media organization that isn't exactly your point-of-view.
Tracy: One of the pros is definitely the BuzzFeed name and having the BuzzFeed machine behind you. Like we're more likely to get big guests who would never talk to my black ass without BuzzFeed's naming feeding me.
Heben: Yes.
Aminatou: Tracy@BuzzFeed.
Tracy: Right, right. No. No. Mm-mm, no. Mm-mm, no. So that's definitely one, visibility, resources. I actually had my own podcast before I was hired -- before I even knew what BuzzFeed was. Me and my friend Nicole in Tennessee, we had no idea what we were doing but we just knew we really wanted people to listen to it and it was like nobody would, you know? And it was just like hey, we're smart we promise. We're fun. Just take a minute to listen. And people are not trying to really do that unless they have some pre-ordained knowledge of you or something that you're connected to. So that's definitely a pro.
(38:30)
Ann: What's hard about it?
Tracy: One of the tough things for me personally is being so -- I mean there are a bunch of black people who work for BuzzFeed. People know Heben and I specifically. So whenever there's a race thing that went up that went really bad people are like "Why did you and Heben let this happen?" And I'm like I don't own shit. I'm not the president of black people at BuzzFeed. Nobody runs ideas past me.
Ann: You guys don't have a committee?
Tracy: You know?
Heben: You know how many times I've been like "You know what? Everyone should just run their ideas by me." [Laughter] A thousand times.
Ann: Simple solutions.
Heben: Yes.
Tracy: Right, but that's just not the idea the corporation works, you know? But I mean since nobody can see what happens behind-the-scenes and how power is structured and organized and just the process of how we do things, which I don't fault people for. If you don't know you just don't know. Yeah.
Heben: I get that. Yeah.
Tracy: But it's really stressful being the representative -- being deemed the representative for everything black that happens at BuzzFeed. Like we are in this corner and there's just so much else happening and going on.
Aminatou: Or just even knowing that it's not even -- you don't even report into the same chains of command, right?
Tracy: Yeah. Yeah.
Aminatou: It's not like oh, you saw that but you just didn't speak up. It's like literally it's a different business unit.
Tracy: I found this out when you did, yeah.
(39:50)
Aminatou: Yeah, you're like I also read the website so I learned the same time as you.
Tracy: Yeah.
Aminatou: I've seen you, Tracy, diffuse a lot of situations like that where people will come at you on Twitter. And I personally have learned a lot from it and learned to just be less of a reactionary online through watching some of your interactions with people because they can be really fraught, right?
Tracy: Yeah.
Aminatou: And I think it's the emotional labor of being a woman. Everyone just wants you to, you know, it's like make me feel better.
Ann: Tell me it's okay.
Tracy: Yes. Yes.
Heben: Oh my god.
Aminatou: And being the thing. But I think a lot of us can learn from you where you've just been . . .
Heben: I agree.
Tracy: Aww.
Aminatou: You are really good at diffusing just very tense Internet moments with facts. And actually, here's the thing, I am also a person. I also work here. You don't have to yell. You don't have to be accusatory.
Heben: Yeah.
Aminatou: Dove-tailing into that is thinking about the work that you both do with Cocoa Butter that I love and just maybe if you can tell us more about why you created it and what's the rationale for it and what's the aspiration there?
Tracy: Cocoa butter kind of came about after we had a great Black History Month, and when I say great Black History Month I mean basically the first Black History Month where we had enough black people to be like it's Black History Month. Let's do something more than . . .
Heben: It wasn't just me basically.
Tracy: It was what?
Heben: It was basically not just me.
Tracy: Yeah. So Heben -- I don't know if people know. I feel like you should get a t-shirt that says this because it really is a huge accomplishment. She was the first full-time black person at BuzzFeed.
Aminatou: Wow.
Ann: Wow.
Tracy: A round of applause for this one. [Clapping] Yes, yes.
Aminatou: Wait, you were hired even before Martin Luther Shawnee? [Laughter]
Tracy: Before Martin Luther Shawnee, before Martin Luther Saeed.
Heben: Martin Luther Shawnee. [Laughs]
Aminatou: That's amazing.
Tracy: Yeah, so we got to this place where we actually had a black workforce on the team and I sort of spearheaded the first year -- the year before this last year. I sort of spearheaded it and after it was over we were like how do we keep this momentum going? And we had to do it in such a way that it wasn't like here's BuzzFeed and here's black BuzzFeed because then it keeps BuzzFeed itself from being accountable to . . .
Heben: It defeats the whole point.
(42:00)
Tracy: Yeah, it really defeats the whole point. Don't just like put us in a corner and have us do our own shit. We work for you and with you. You have to integrate us. So a good way to do that was to have people -- and not just black people -- who are interested in creating content about the black reality, the black experience. Have them get together, brainstorm, think of things they would want to see on the site, do it, and rather than have a separate landing page on BuzzFeed which would be counter-productive just have like a social channel where people can be like I want to read some black shit. Go to the Twitter which is @cocoabutterbf, everybody follow it.
Aminatou: It's so good. If you don't follow it you're a fool.
Ann: Which I always read as Cocoa Butter Boyfriend because I hear BF. [Laughter] I know. I know.
Tracy: You know what? I'm into that. Cocoa Butter Boyfriend.
Ann: Or best friend, whatever your BF thing is.
Aminatou: My best friend.
Tracy: Because so much of the amazing stuff that people of color do, and not just black folks at BuzzFeed, gets lost in the sauce.
Heben: Yeah. Lost in the sauce.
Tracy: Because there's this huge site. There's so many people who work there. It's a big white site so the brown stuff gets lost and this is just the way to get . . .
Aminatou: The brown people do the most for the Internet. The most.
Tracy: Oh my gosh, running this shit. Running the Internet. And it's powered by some of the best people that I've ever known and met in my life, and I'm not a person who easily likes her coworkers but I love these people. [Laughs] And not just these people of course; I work with a lot of great people. But it's just a bunch of black folks working really, really hard to put out good stuff and Cocoa Butter BF is there to highlight it and help people actually find it and help their work find the audience that it needs and deserves.
Aminatou: That's cool. Can each of you tell me -- tell us -- one favorite black meme recently?
Tracy: Oh my goodness.
Aminatou: It could be anything.
(43:44)
Tracy: Just one? I mean I feel like the most important meme that has come into my life, like has just been a constant over the last . . . I don't even, I can't remember my life without it so I don't even know when it started.
Heben: You talking about the Michael Jordan meme?
Tracy: Absolutely girl. [Laughter] Michael Jordan I feel like has been there as long as the Internet has been . . .
Aminatou: I couldn't handle him in the North Carolina game because I was like is this your face or is this the meme face on the . . . [Laughter]
Heben: The Michael Jordan crying meme, it's iconic.
Tracy: It really is iconic and so versatile, you know?
Aminatou: It's never going to go away.
Tracy: It can be applied to so many situations.
Aminatou: It's going to resolve racism. I think that's the thing that's bringing us all closer together.
Heben: It might. I think that's pretty hopeful.
Aminatou: What's yours Heben?
Heben: Like regular black people reacting to things memes.
Tracy: Oh man.
Ann: Oh yeah.
Heben: Like I don't think you have to become a meme to do that but just literally everyone's faces are always on-point.
Tracy: Oh my god, my favorite thing that black people react to in online videos, sports plays like a dunk. [Laughter] Like in a regular high school game or just like, you know . . .
Heben: Everybody's chilling.
Tracy: Jamal and his friends at the gym one day and somebody makes -- it doesn't even have to be a great dunk.
Heben: It doesn't.
Tracy: But as soon as it happens everyone's running across the floor this way. Someone's doing a tuck and roll.
Heben: Everyone disperses.
Tracy: Right.
Aminatou: It's just because nobody can gas you up more than a black person. [Laughter]
Tracy: Yes, oh my god.
Aminatou: For no reason.
Heben: Everyone just wildly disperses.
Tracy: That means business. I love it.
Heben: I love that.
Aminatou: That's perfect.
Heben: We are very celebratory people.
Tracy: We are. We are.
Ann: I'm curious because the two of us were friends before we started podcasting and it's been a layer on top of an existing relationship. But I'm curious about what relationship you guys had before you started doing the podcast together and what your collaboration is like too.
Tracy: I like Heben. She's cool.
Heben: Yeah, Tracy's all right. [Laughter]
Aminatou: We can hear it in your rapport.
Tracy: Before the podcast started we were collaborating on a lot of different pieces on BuzzFeed.
Heben: I was so excited when Tracy came to work on . . .
Ann: So you were coworkers?
Tracy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Heben: But it was like when a coworker comes and you're like oh my god, we have the same sense of humor, same writing sensibility, same topics we're interested in. That's exciting.
Aminatou: When a coworker comes and you're like she can be my friend?
(46:00)
Ann: I love that feeling.
Heben: Yeah.
Aminatou: That's the holy grail of coworking.
Ann: Oh my god.
Heben: Absolutely.
Aminatou: Because I'm also not friends with a lot of my coworkers.
Ann: Special exceptions.
Aminatou: You see somebody and you're kind of like "I'm sad you work here because I want to be friends with you."
Tracy: Right, and BuzzFeed really is like a company of friends. It's a little disgusting sometimes. Everybody is just like . . .
Aminatou: We see you.
Ann: We see you on the Internet.
Aminatou: We see you on the Internet. You don't have to explain to us.
Tracy: So you already know how lovey-dovey we all are. But the first time I met Heben I had flown up to be interviewed to be hired for BuzzFeed. [Laughter] And that, listen, when I got on a plane I was like I've got to go up there and tell these very nice white people I'm not going to do it because I didn't want to move. But they had a dinner someplace. There were two black people there. Heben was one and I think Saeed was the other? And I was like okay, so these are my two friends for better or worse or whatever.
Heben: I was like praise God. I love you. [Laughter]
Aminatou: Aww.
Tracy: But it was so delightful and refreshing to be like I want to be her friend because we are both black but also I really like her.
Heben: Right. Not just because we were both black. I actually appreciate her sense of humor, her work situation, what she's interested in.
Aminatou: But also she's black.
Tracy: But also . . .
Heben: Also she's black. [Laughter]
Tracy: Also this is where all of my T is going to come from.
Heben: Yes. I mean do I let you down? No I didn't.
Tracy: You never.
Heben: Exactly. Exactly. It's been a journey.
Tracy: Yeah.
Ann: Wait, and so now then working together on this podcast baby, the real one, the podcast we listen to . . .
Tracy: [Laughs] It's great. I mean the podcast for me is something that legitimately -- like when I'm here in the studio in the seat it does not feel like work. It really feels like I'm just drinking it like it's three on a Tuesday which I probably shouldn't do with my friend who is also making a poor decision so I'm not by myself.
Heben: That's not how I think about it.
Tracy: Oh? Whatever.
Ann: How do you think about it?
(47:50)
Heben: I don't think I'm making poor decisions. It's really exciting for me to have space in a white company to make black content that's not -- that centers ourselves.
Tracy: Yeah.
Heben: That's crazy wild to me.
Tracy: It is. And it's also important to have somebody who can tell you -- who can affirm you.
Heben: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tracy: Because when you're one of the only brown faces . . .
Heben: It's hard to just get feedback and good criticism.
Tracy: Yeah.
Heben: I'm not anti-criticism; it's just it's often hard to get good criticism about the work you're doing.
Tracy: For very logical reasons.
Heben: Yeah. People have got to know your references. People have got to know what you're working against.
Tracy: Yeah.
Heben: They have to know the industry and what other people have already said about race and humor and whatever. There's just a lot that people have to know to give us good feedback. So it's always exciting to me when I have a partner that understands the kind of humor I'm thinking about or the kind of subjects I'm thinking about and what's already been said. Like you don't have to explain yourself, like me and Tracy just click.
Tracy: Yeah, and also . . .
Heben: That was just immediately apparent to me.
Tracy: It was. And it's also great to have a corner of a person you can go to and be like "This thing just happened. Am I crazy?"
Heben: Yeah, yes.
Tracy: They can be like yeah, you -- or no, not at all.
Heben: You need at least one human to confirm your sanity at every workplace.
Tracy: Yeah.
Heben: It's so hard.
Tracy: Yeah. We're really lucky to have a lot of those people.
Heben: Yeah.
Tracy: Like our audio team is amazing.
Heben: They're also a good gauge of other white people.
Tracy: Yes.
Heben: I'm like all right, if Eleanor doesn't know about this the other whites won't. [Laughter]
Tracy: And if Jenna does know about this then maybe . . .
Heben: Maybe some Brooklyn whites do.
Aminatou: Some Brooklyn whites. Shout out to . . .
Heben: Am I wrong though? Am I wrong though?
Tracy: No you are not.
Heben: Exactly. Exactly.
Ann: We always ask pump-up song, power jam. What do you . . .
Tracy: Ooh.
Ann: I'm curious now because we have you both here. I know you've been doing some live events, or you have a really big interview with maybe a leading presidential candidate. Stuff you guys have done. What do you listen to when you need to feel like your confident best selves?
Tracy: Always Beyonce.
Heben: Always Beyonce.
Tracy: Yeah.
Heben: Diva.
Tracy: Yes.
Heben: Formation.
Tracy: Yes.
Heben: Uh, Sugar Mom. [Laughter]
Tracy: Also really important to us is Feeling Myself.
Ann: Very important to this family too.
(49:55)
Heben: The Beyonce combination is truly where we're at.
Aminatou: Yeah, we have a lot of that on our . . .
Heben: Sometimes Tracy's the Nicki but we're always just like . . we're feeling ourselves.
Tracy: I think that's what we were listening to when we were preparing to interview Hillary Clinton and one of her folks came in like "Can you keep it down? She's next door doing interviews."
Heben: Doing some real interviews. [Laughs]
Aminatou: She was practicing her Feeling Myself.
Heben: She probably was.
Aminatou: She's like I know this one.
Ann: Thank you for having us.
Tracy: Thank you for having us.
Ann: Ugh, okay.
Aminatou: You guys are the -- I'm sorry, y'all are the best.
Heben: Aww! Appreciate the y'alls.
Aminatou: Y'all are the best. Can't wait to listen to your show because we'll be on there and it's going to be super fun!
Tracy: Yes!
Ann: I know, very, very excited.
Tracy: Everybody listen. We have great talks about stuff. I don't want to . . .
Heben: Stuff and things.
Aminatou: We won't even ruin it for you. You can find us many places on the Internet, on our website callyourgirlfriend.com, download it anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts, or on iTunes where we'd love it if you left us a review. You can tweet at us at @callyrgf or email us at callyrgf@gmail.com. You can find us on Facebook -- look that one up yourself -- or on Instagram, our brand new fun Instagram at callyrgf. You can even leave us a short and sweet voicemail at 714-681-2943. That's 714-681-CYGF. Thank you so much to the Another Round pod squad and Argo Studio in New York City for having us.
Ann: Yes!
Aminatou: We had a blast. It's like who knew? Get out of the closet, people bringing us snacks, drinks. There's other humans here. Cannot wait until this family levels up.
Ann: Our IRL podcasting game. It's true.
Aminatou: Whew, just can't wait to be a mogul, make a million dollars off a podcast. Flex ooh, ooh, ooh.
Ann: Oh my god. Ooh, ooh, ooh.
Aminatou: This podcast is produced by Gina Delvac.
Ann: Gina Delvac!
Aminatou: See you on the Internet, boo-boo!
Ann: See you on the Internet.