The Silent but Deadly Fart of Racism
10/15/21 - George McCalman is an artist, a writer, an illustrator, and a designer. This man does it ALL. He spent many years as a magazine creative director, shaping the look and feel of publications such as Mother Jones, Readymade, Afar. Then he opened up his own studio, McCalman Co, where he collaborates on branding, design, and editorial projects. This year his work was nominated for a National Design Award for communication design. He’s a writer. He shows his fine art in galleries. He created the Observed column for the San Francisco Chronicle, in which he illustrated his observations of the city’s cultural life. Recently, he worked on chef Bryant Terry’s new book, Black Food, which is a gorgeous tribute to the foodways of the African diaspora-- it’s out next week. And he’s deep in the work of creating Illustrated Black History: Honoring the Iconic and the Unseen, which will be out next year.
Transcript below.
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CREDITS
Executive Producer: Gina Delvac
Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn
Composer: Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs.
Producer: Jordan Bailey
Visual Creative Director: Kenesha Sneed
Merch Director: Caroline Knowles
Editorial Assistant: Mercedes Gonzales-Bazan
Design Assistant: Brijae Morris
Ad sales: Midroll
TRANSCRIPT: THE SILENT BUT DEADLY FART OF RACISM
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Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend
Ann: A podcast for long distance besties everywhere.
Aminatou: I’m Aminatou Sow.
Ann: And I'm Ann Friedman.
Aminatou: Hey Ann Friedman. What's up this week?
Ann: On today's agenda is a conversation with George McCalman, who is an artist, a writer and illustrator a designer. Like honestly, the list of labels goes on and on because this man does it all.
[theme song]
Ann: He spent many years as a magazine creative director, shaping the look and feel of publications like Ready Made and Afar and Mother Jones, which is where he and I met 15 years ago when I was a lowly intern. And he was just like a creative force. Even then, since that time he has opened up his own studio McCalman Co where he collaborates on branding and design and editorial projects. Often all of those things kind of collapse into one. He always has his hands in about six different pots. And, um, he's also one of my favorite writers. He contributes to the San Francisco Chronicle where he pioneered a column for them called Observed, where he illustrated, um, his observations about the city's cultural life. And if that weren't enough, he also shows his fine art in galleries. Like what did I tell you? He does it all. Recently he worked with Chef Bryant Terry on his new book, black food, which is a gorgeous tribute to the food ways of the African diaspora, that's out next week. And George is also deep in the work of creating Illustrated Black History, honoring the iconic and the unseen, his own book, which will be out next year. Like I said, he does it all. George has been a huge influence on my life in terms of how he is committed to showing and showing up for his own artistic process, how he makes thoughtful decisions, how he metabolizes the culture and the politics of this moment through his art and, um, and also how he cultivates community. We're going to talk about all of that.
[interview begins]
Ann: George, It is my pleasure to welcome you, to Call Your Girlfriend.
George: I am so excited. I feel like I'm fanning out and yet also feeling grounded and settled in this conversation. Also, I'm such a fan of what you and Amina have done. I'm just really thrilled to be here.
Ann: Mutual a flutter, but also grounded is how I feel.
George: [laughter] A fluttering.
Ann: Yes, I was thinking about this and, you know, sometimes I interview illustrious strangers who I don't know, but you happen to be like an illustrious person who I do know. And I was…
George: Spoiler.
Ann: Spoiler, yes, I know. And I was thinking about this. So we met 15 years ago.
George: Yes. I was thinking about that the other day. It is 15 years. We've known each other.
Ann: Well, maybe you could describe what was going on in your life at that point. Like, what was your creative life? Where were we set the scene? Yeah.
George: Yes. Yes. Well, I'm going to set both the personal and the professional scene. Uh, the professional scene was that I was the art director of Mother Jones, and I had been there for about a year. And, um, and you were amongst the fresh crop of krill [laughter]. That's sauntered into the hallway on the edit side of which I have to say, all of you that came in that year. I am still really close friends. It's kind of amazing because that was during the days where I did not mix business and pleasure, and I did not befriend coworkers. I had a hard, hard line around keeping distance socially from people that I worked with that's like several lifetimes ago. And, um, and so that's how we met. And I remember you sitting next to two other friends and, and just kind of, you guys were a pod of reporters and baby editors and, and writers, and you were just dynamic and interesting and curious. And I just, I remember that time so fondly, because you were a group of young professionals that you, you knew you all were going somewhere.
Ann: I also remember you very fondly from that time in part, because I have always, I think, found it sometimes easier to connect with people who work on the visual side of media. Um, sometimes more so than my editor, writer peers, like in college, all my friends were the photojournalists, you know? Um, and so, you know, I think I was primed to want to be your friend. And also we have a great age gap. People who are like exactly 10 years older than me, I really get something special from those friendships. I'm really like, I'm really looking to those friends to show me what, like the next decade of my life could look like. You know, it's like a really present sense of possibility, you know?
George: Yes. Yes. And then on the personal side, I had this habit of buying cookies in bulk and placing them in a basket next to my cubicle. And this is one of those things I was thinking about this the other day. If I were doing this today, I'd be like hit up on harassment charges. Learning coworker is my studio,
Ann: This wasn’t exactly the witch in Hansel and Gretel. You know what I mean? You were pleasant to visit.
George: Uh, but I used to leave all these cookies out and half of the office would invariably end up circling to my, to my workstation. So I ended up actually just talking to all of my dynamic coworkers on a really regular basis. And, and, you know, our friendship was, has basically been the same, uh, for the 15 years that we've known each other. We've always had a real curiosity about what the other is doing. And we have shown up at very kind of inflection moments in both of our lives and provided a mirror of, of potential for what is next, you know, that's, I think that's a, that's a short and sweet way to describe our very sweet friendship.
Ann: Yeah. And I also, how did you, how did you define maybe you yourself as a creative person at that point in time? Because I, I, I think that's also important to this story.
George: Yeah. You know, the interesting thing is the language that we have for creativity right now is not, is not something that was present, uh, professionally or personally in those days. So even the kind of verb that becomes a noun and the noun becomes a verb in terms of how people describe how we as artists describe ourselves has changed. So radically, the thing is 15 years ago, I did not think I was a creative person. I, as a graphic designer and art director, I thought of myself as a facilitator, I had creative tendencies and I had been trained as a graphic designer. I, you know, assigned a ton of photography. I designed a bunch of layouts. I told people what to do, like gave feedback, I've mentored, uh, artists, but I did not think of myself as one at the time.
Ann: Yeah. When did that start to shift for you personally, you know, setting aside, you know, maybe how the profession is viewed externally, when did you start to reevaluate this narrative of, oh, I'm not an artist, I'm a facilitator or a translator or a merrier of ideas.
George: Uh, you know, I'm gonna, it's gonna sound like I'm basically negating everything that I just said, but that is personally how I have seen myself the whole time. I stepped into the magazine world in the mid-nineties, and that was at its peak in terms of budgets and largest and extravagance. And it was crazy, you know?
Ann: Yeah. That world is gone.
George: That is gone. And even as it was slowly atrophying, all the air was being led out of the balloon. There was still this hard line of how we were supposed to present ourselves and how we were supposed to work. And I was critical of it to myself the whole time. There's a lot of it that did not make sense. That magazines didn't make sense as a business. It didn't make a lot of sense as a process, but everyone was really devoted to keeping that train running. And the whole time I kept kind of dissecting. But in terms of my role, I kept wondering why I had worked hard for a layout. Why should I not claim it as my own work? Why should I not show that I did this? And every time there was an attempt at that I was told, no, no, no, you're, you're behind you're, you're behind the train. You're not, you're not alongside. And you're certainly not ahead of this train. You, you are there to make sure that the train is running, but that's about it. And so that started shifting right around the time that I left the magazine industry. Uh, 10 years ago, I opened up my own studio and it was out of frustration. Basically. I did not like that. I was being told to work in a way that I had, I had gained my own confidence and I was still being told the same thing. And I was also a Black and gay person. And I had, uh, not past tense, present, present tense. I'm still, I'm still Black. I'm still gay. But I was realizing that my view, my cultural view was always stripped out of the work that I was doing. If there was someone else above me and I kept saying, no, culturally it's really important. Like what my perspective is, culturally is really important to the work and it's all over my work. And the average viewer might not know that, but I know that it goes into the color sensibility. It goes into the page construction. It goes into the illustrators. I'm assigning the photographers that I'm working with. Those are all cultural choices too. And every time I attempted to have that conversation, it was always unraveled. And finally, I decided I'm tired of hitting the wall where this is concerned. And Mother Jones is one of those places too, where we talked about politics and culture, but it was rarely reflected in the process of making the magazine. And I was like, this doesn't make any sense to me. I need to leave. And I had the same issue going to Wired. I had the same issue going to Ready Made. I had the same issue going to Afar. And so when I got to Afar and saw the same thing, being just a very kind of silent agreement that everyone else, and it was mostly my white coworkers that everyone was going to not have a deeper conversation about how we were creating stories. I said, okay, this is going to be my last magazine job. And it was.
Ann: What did it feel like to transition to running your own shop then? Like, did, did that just instantly invert? And you were like, okay, actually I set the culture here and this feels a hundred percent, right. Or was it bumpier than that?
George: It was messy and bumpy. And it took me five years because the truth is I had a long form goal for myself. But if I'm being honest, I was too scared for the first five years of doing it to really sink my feet into the sand of that. And so I kept hedging, you know, I took a lot of work at first that I was excited about, but I didn't really take the conversation as far. And it always ended up, uh, you know, the, the backwash of that wave would just roll back at some point in the process. And I would really kind of beat myself up silently, like why I didn't step into it sooner, why I didn't establish the parameters? Well, I didn't really approach it the way that I knew I should. And five years ago is when I started, I started making that shift in a lot of ways and I made a complete wholesale shift in that I stopped all of the branding work that I was doing and hit the reset button and basically started everything over again. And, and I really brought in finally, all of the pieces that I had been thinking about, and it completely transformed every aspect of what I was doing professionally.
Ann: I want to back up just a smidge and go back to this thing. You said where you had, you knew what this kind of long-term goal was, or you knew you weren't quite doing it, or maybe you were kind of scared to do it. And, and what was that, what was that goal? Like if we could be more concrete, I guess about it.
George: Yes. Um, there is something that I have, I have a belief in humanity in this way that due to our circumstance, most people don't embrace all the things that they want, circumstance, um, growth, uh, you know, but I think we all really know what we want. You know, when no one else is around us, when the doors are closed and the lights are out, we actually do know what we want, but most of that is just not realized. And in my case, I wanted to combine all of the aspects of what I was doing. I had gone to college and had trained as a fine artist and graphic designer at the same time. But I was told that there was no way that, that, that, that did not exist, that someone was an artist and a commercial. And we're called commercial designers at the time that you picked a lane and you adhere to it. And so I started professionally and, and I always wanted to fuse. I always wanted to fuse them. And I knew a lot of graphic designers that have become illustrators. I knew a lot of illustrators that become graphic designers, but aside from one person, Milton Glaser, I did not know anyone else. And then I met Milton Glaser and I was like, I don't, I don't want this at all.
Ann: For listeners who aren’t familiar can you just like, give the, I'm sure. If you described just a couple of key Milton Glaser bio points that that listeners would be able to, or who you're talking about?
George: Well, Milton Glaser was someone that basically all of New York culture went to. He defined a few really kind of seminal. And, uh, and of course I'm not thinking of the, uh, the precise. He has a couple of really iconic, he designed logos. He did posters. He's a brilliant, he's a brilliant, brilliant designer.
Ann: Did he do I Heart New York or did I make that up? Yeah, that would be like a big iconic thing.
George: Yeah. Yes. And a really huge, um, figure, a seminal figure in, in graphic design and definitely one of my artistic heroes. But then, you know, I was working at Money Magazine at the time and my boss was really close friends with all of the prominent artists at the time. And then you go, go meet people at their studios, and then you find out there's a person behind the art. [laughter]
Ann: And maybe you didn't want to know what the person behind the iron.
George: And maybe you didn't want to know. And so Milton Glaser was not someone personally that I wanted to emulate. And so I was left at zero. So there was no one really, and there were a few people here and there, there were the Tibor Collins and the, uh, and Myra Calman and, and there were, there were still kind of rarefied, uh, white people who, and also culturally, I was told that basically I could not aim for that because I was not white. And there weren't very many Black, um, artists at the time. I knew a lot of Black artists, but not folks who were doing commercial work were being hired for design and, uh, magazine and editorial jobs. So the message at the time was just kind of like George, stick in your lane, and I want you to get good at what the thing you are doing, but I can't really see any way that this is going to work out. And by the time I was, uh, deciding to leave Afar, I kind of did a gut check one more time. And I said, okay, I don't think this is the right time. And so five years later, I realized that there was this bubbling up. It was just this pathological need. I needed to investigate whether this was possible or not. And I just decided to jump off the ledge.
Ann: And what did jumping look like?
George: Being terrified all the time. I really was for the first couple of years, I love saying that there was no confidence in what I was doing. It was just a compulsion. There still wasn't anyone that I was seeing that was doing it the way that in my mind, the conversation with myself is what I wanted. I wanted to realize my art fully. I wanted to be the artist of the projects that I was designing. I wanted to remain a creative director. I wanted to remain a brand strategist. I just wanted to put all of it together. Even, I knew I was going to be writing, I just wanted to do all of it, all the time at the same time. But I would say that in the last five years, I've really sunk deeper into the cultural complexity of the work that I'm doing. Um, marrying it to the larger evolution of our societal culture as human beings, American culture, and also that I am an immigrant also. And so I'm thinking about things continually as an outsider. And so, um, I'm always taking all those ingredients and stirring it in a giant cauldron and just like muhahah-ing as I stir. [laughter]
Ann: And we're back to you being the wits, slurring people with cookies. I love it.
George: Uh, and also to, to enjoy, I wanted to really enjoy, you know, I didn't always enjoy what I was doing because it was just high stakes, you know, working at a weekly, you're always trying to get things done and you're working with a lot of people and everyone's difficult and you're trying to navigate, and you just learn, you learn a sixth sense of how to do this. And you've, you're working with really smart people and it's thrilling. It's exciting, but it wasn't fun. And now it is fun. I have, I have a really good time doing what I do, and that has been an important component.
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Ann: So when you described this place that you knew you wanted to go where everything was kind of holistically married, you know, your, your work as an artist, your work as creative director, your work as a writer, um, what are some projects, more recent projects that really feel like a fulfillment of that goal or that dream for you?
George: Well, you know, it took a while to get here, but I can say honestly that I don't accept any projects. I don't say yes to any projects that I don't feel like there is a cultural resonance to my involvement. You know, I've said no to a lot of work, because I will say that there are a lot of other people who do that better than I do. You know, I don't have to do everything. And there are a lot of things that I don't know how to do very well. And so that comfort has come with age. Um, I just turned 50 and I'm just like, I'm not playing around. So I don't have time to waste. And in your forties, you start somatically embodying that, and then you get close to your fifties and you're like, oh, I'm good over here. I don't, I don't need to chase any, any thing. I don't need to chase a trend. I really I'm good over here. I know what I'm all about. The projects that I'm taking more and more, there's a built-in sense of continuity, meaning that I work with people for a long time and I can work on different projects with them, but I have clients that I've had for five to 10 years and we can work together for six months and then we don't work together for another two years and then they call me up and then we pick up again and, and there's just an, it really is. It's a very familial thing for me. And if it's a new client, I like them to feel that they are actually, this is a long-term relationship.
Ann: The first of many things.
George: Yes. And so to answer your question more directly, uh, my studio has been designing a lot of books lately, and they are all books that I consider cultural artifacts, you know, books that people can come back to. And that are very indicative of this moment in time that we are all experiencing as American culture goes through a really seismic change, uh, due to the twin forces of the pandemic and George Floyd's murder. And that there's a willingness to try things a little bit differently. Um, I want to do some weird stuff. I want to do some interesting stuff. I want any book that I'm working on, I'm not looking at any other book that has existed before as a model. I'm trying to create something new and distinct that we can look back on to say, yes, this is representative of that story. This was representative of this time. I'm always thinking about the long term effects of what I'm working on.
Ann: It's interesting. This is the second time that you've mentioned not really having a clear model or precedent for something that you're working on. And I'm wondering what it looks like for you to develop, like, okay, like what are the pieces you cobbled together then to create the new?
George: Yeah, that is a fantastic question because it was spit and tape for awhile. You know, it really was the first couple of years where I really sat in the thick of, you know, I took a sabbatical for a year and I was just learning how to be a self-described artist. And so I was doing a lot of drawing and painting and chronicling San Francisco, uh, culture at the time. And then after that year, I realized, oh, I actually don't want to stop designing. I think it's actually really important for me to, to present a way for black and brown companies to know that someone can help them design their needs with a similar cultural perspective. And so the kind of, as I got to each stage, it began to make sense and the language became clearer. I am very proud to say I fumbled in the language for a couple of years. You know, I knew I wanted my studio to be a place that, you know, businesses who are looked over by other agencies, that they could find a home with me that we weren't, that the culture of what we were doing was not the last conversation we were having. It was the first conversation. And so that totally inverted any process that we were doing because metrics were a really small part of what we were discussing. And, and that I always started from any company is a manifestation of the personality of the person who started it. And, and it's a really simple thing. And it's, it is absolutely true, but it is shocking how many companies don't know that and don't view themselves in this way. And so it's a completely different process. If you're starting from the top, you, uh, companies will design up, you know, it's the, the people who have the least amount of influence who will start the process. And it is often the person at the top who will stop or derail the process. And so anything that I'm doing, I'm working with a company right now where part of my, and it's a pretty large company, but I worked out in the process that I was talking directly with the founder. I was like, I'm not, nobody is getting in the way of my ability to have a direct conversation. And if we're not doing that, then this is not going to work at all. And thankfully they saw that it was necessary to do it that way. And it has just made everything simpler.
Ann: I'm thinking about the ways that you are such a convener in your community. I mean, the cookies on the desk, one example, way back when, but also things like Black brunch club, you know, like I'm really, I really, I think about it more than I ought to as someone who is not part of that community.
George: And I have a lot of clubs and I have a lot, a lot of clubs, please.
Ann: I want to hear a little bit about like how you create this infrastructure for community, because it's often such a nebulous thing that people are like, I love my community, but it's really clever. And what you're doing to keep that together and to keep it cohesive, you are really thoughtful on this front.
George: Um, you know, I'm going to start at the end. I'm going to ask you that question. At the end of my understanding, I have only just put together why I'm this way, because I often wondered why, why am I so invested in creating these communities? And I think it's just the kind of, um, oxymoronic, um, set up of my family. I have, I, um, I come from a giant Caribbean family, like my family. I have hundreds of cousins. My grandfather is one of 22 children to the same mother and father. And so there's, I just grew up with a lot of family, but I am also an only child and the child of a single mother. And so we were very much outsiders, even within my family structure. So I was a kid who spent a lot of time alone, even though I was really socialized. And for me, I always was seeking out community in that natural way that I grew up in a family that was really social. You know, we, it is very customary and my families, you know, there, there are several hubs throughout the planet basically, and there, and we all engage in this way. Like Sunday is a time that people come over and we cook and we're together, and we're all catching up with each other in a much more, um, just honest and soulful way where you just have hours together. And that's, that's the natural way for us to be as human beings. And so that was imprinted on me at a really young age. And then I think when I moved to San Francisco, I was like, what is up with this weird city where everyone is just kind of unto themselves. And they don't really spend all that much time together. And socially. I found the city to be a little strange. And then as a Black person moving here, I was like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, San Francisco not having it. And after a few years of just being frustrated at being the only Black person in, you know, as a Black, only Black person in any department, I was in, I was always the representative and I just got so tired of it and other people, other Black people that I knew just moved, you know, and I, uh, for me, I just realized, I love the city. I love the city in a way that I probably shouldn't, but I do. And what do I need to stay here? And as someone who comes from a Black culture and has always, you know, the idea that I would be a minority is just not even in my frame of understanding. That's just not how I see the world. That's never how I'm going to see the world. I am not anyone's minority. So I was just kind of like, okay, if then I need to change that. I need to make sure that I am the majority in my own world, you know? Um, and so 12 years ago, I started with a friend, started organizing a Black brunch group that has grown into this magnificent community that is in several cities. And we, we have, we formed this lattice of, of, you know, resources for each other that has just been breathtaking to see. They're just incredible. And I am, and it has basically settled me in San Francisco. It's a strange thing for me to say, but as a Black person, living in San Francisco, a majority of my friends are Black and that is, that's what I need to feel. And I'm out in the world. I'm a very social person. I have friends of every stripe, color, creed, and I do not want to live in a city where I walk into a room. And I'm the only Black person I'm not interested in that, in any way, shape or form.
Ann: I want to talk about this observation about, um, the way that, how do I phrase this, the knowledge that you are not a minority being very rooted in that knowledge, that that is not like some sort of normative reality in the world. Um, and I know you've been lately spending more time at home in Grenada. And, um, you know, I'm just, I'm, I'm wondering how that truth is landing for you in this moment, maybe differently than it has in times in your life when you, um, have not been spending as much time, um, back in the Caribbean.
George: Yeah. A friend of mine described it. She's a writer and is a columnist for the New York Times. And I say this only because she, she really is a poet and, you know, I just spent a few months in Grenada this year and she said, it must feel liberating to not be a Black person in Grenada. And I was like, oh my god. Yes, thank you. Yes, it's it that I've lived in this country for most of my life. I am an American citizen. I love being an American, but it is also oppressive. It is a daily oppressive way to move through the world as a Black man. And I've said it in ways that are, you know, lyrical, and I've said it in ways that are angry. It takes the air out of your lungs, having to move through the world, expecting at some point, someone is going to interact with you in a way that is not human. And it's basically what racism is. It is a lack of humanity to other people. And that this country has just made it a moral issue. Um, instead of a criminal issue means that it just gets to be this, you know, thing that's just flapping in the wind and there's no anchor to it. And so there's no solution to it. And last year was the first time that the axis of that conversation shifted finally away from Black people. We didn't create this mess. It's like white people created this mess, so white people need to fix it. And so that was just the, just the simple turn that was the axis. And that's what had, you know, white ladies like crying in the streets because it was like, yeah, ladies, this is your problem to solve. It's isn't, this was never my problem to solve, but it is still this weight and this burden that, um, you know, and it's no better in San Francisco, you know, San Francisco as a progressive city is really kind of a joke, um, because it's not actually how people are wired. And so still dealing with that and carrying that around with me, where I have to be on high alert all the time. And I just felt safer. I felt safer there compared to here in a way that I really articulate, you know, in daily life with, you know, if I, if I said that to a white person, I say that to a white person, that's a curiosity that like, let's dissect what that means. And I'm just like, I don't want to explain this to you. I don't really want to explain this to you. This is my then 49 years of existence. Like, I can't sum this up in a couple of sentences for you to feel better about yourself. I just am tired of this weight. And so just being there, I get to be George who is obviously Black, obviously African and obviously Caribbean. And obviously, obviously, obviously a lot of things, but that is not the, at the forefront of how I'm moving through the world. And there was just a world of difference. It's a world of difference.
Ann: Yeah. I would be remiss not to mention that you made a whole body of work on this subject. Um, you know, like, oh, a lot of white ladies who shed some tears last summer, listen to this show, you know, um, me included, uh, and I would, would love to hear you for, for those who are not familiar with this body of work, talk a little bit about it and where it came from and what it was like to put it out into the world.
George: Yes. So last summer, you know, in my personal world, there was the larger societal, uh, ripple that was happening in my personal world. I was receiving as did every Black person. I knew the manifestation of white guilt, and it was really a deluge of really invasive, you know, tell me what I can do to fix this. Just a, a, just a whole sale, just nonsense of human emotions of human adults being toddlers, you know, basically just like, oh, we didn't, we didn't understand that this was here and you guys know about this. So tell me what to do. Tell me how I can make this better. Tell me what I can. And the first few times, I mean, and I got a couple hundred just strangers email, you know, emails, texts just completely unsolicited. And the first few times I was like, oh, this is just annoying. And then I started realizing, oh, this is actually a pathology. And then I thought, okay, well, this is just me. And then I started talking to all my friends and they were like, oh no, we're all. Or like, everyone was just getting this. And I said, oh, this is fascinating. I can get over the personal, you know, annoyance of it. But this is, this is also a cultural moment and this actually needs to be documented too. And so I started taking notes and basically I started reporting on these responses and collecting them like, as they came in. And the interesting thing is every time I reflected an annoyance, it would flare and you would see the anger that would switch on that is like the birthplace of this country. It's like this, this white anger, every time a mirror is held up to, to the culture. And so I was fascinated by the anger that came out of me just saying, what are you doing right now? What exactly are you doing? Why are you speaking to me about this? Why are you speaking to me in this manner, in this way? Why are you, why are you forming these collection of words to send to me, you know, why are you not speaking to each other about this? Because you guys are the ones that should be talking to each other. And so I made a, um, I started painting the words and the show, so it became a fine art show of type paintings based on real reported, uh, words and sentences, and, you know, and treaties that I received from, you know, some strangers, some friends, you know, a couple of my closest friends were represented. Also I was just kind of like you too, I was just like you too. Um, and so it became the basis of a fine art show that I had last, uh, September called Tell Me Three Things I Can Do Slash Return to Sender. And tell me three things I can do was actually one of the very first notes that I got from someone who was a good friend, who then got into an argument with me, because I was like, what, what, please stop sending me this and was offended. I was offended.
I'm just struck by, um, I mean, obviously I am a close observer of your work, but like, just listening to you, describe that process. Like how, how, what a synthesis, this was of like all these, you know, creative skill sets and artistic skill sets and, you know, structural design, all writing. I mean, it's really just all, all there. And did working on that body of work and sort of like then, I mean, I know that you spent a lot of time in the space where that, that all that fine art was exhibited and you had a lot of conversations. I'm wondering if it shifted anything for you. I mean, you, you used the word cathartic. Did it allow you to like, let go of some things or is it still, I don't know. Is it still percolating?
George: Well, as you, as you very astutely, um, reflected, there's a structural aspect to everything that I do, you know, I'm both on the inside and outside of anything that I do. And it is because of my training as a graphic designer, basically I'm able to design anything artistic that I do. I'm not just an artist. That's why I don't just introduce myself as an artist. I'm also a creative director. And what that allows me to do is to be self-aware of what I'm doing as I'm doing it. And, and to explain, you know, I, I really do want to explain, I don't want it to be abstract. There are lots of artists who excel at abstraction. That is not one of my strengths. I don't, I don't, I don't want it to be abstract. I want it to be clear. And so I'm, I'm seeking clarity in my work and it allows me to, you know, not just put time into it as a human being that was really disappointed and hurt and angry. Um, but also understand that this was an opportunity for me to reflect what I was seeing to the people who were not paying attention. And then once the show was hung to have real life conversations with the people who came to visit it, wasn't an opportunity. I didn't just want to just make a show to say F you white people. It was really just to show, to say, actually, you all need to look at this. Like, can you all pay attention to your words, please? And be thoughtful about what you're saying before it comes out. And that now that you see what you say, what do you think of that?
Ann: Yeah, I also, you know, for me, it was really, um, it's, it was really powerful to be shown the pattern, like the structure of it, because I think that one of the insidious things about whiteness is everyone thinks you're just special and unique, and it's only you, you know, like the experience is not related to, you know, your race or the specifically way you are oriented in the culture, but it's, everything is specific and individual. And I think work that has really helped me get a better handle on whiteness is something is work that reflects, you know, what is, what is structural and the ways that I am, despite all of my reading or professed differences, like actually structurally you know, the same as a lot of other white people. I mean, that is one thing that I really sat with with that body of work in particular.
George: Yeah, because you know, to, to follow what you've been saying, and I think you've been a real proponent of discussing the academic-ness that we discuss emotional culture. Like racism is not just systemic, it's emotional, it's basically white people created this systemic structure because they were afraid of losing power. They brought a bunch of people over and made sure that they never got to the level that would allow them to co-exist with any kind of, um, uh, as, as contemporaries, right. And full, full humanity. And, and that, there's a lot of guilt that has haunted white culture, like as a culture, you all are haunted. I say this all the time, haunted, haunted, haunted, and it's been passed down from generation to generation. It's just unstated and it's just hanging in the air like a fart. And so I just want to basically let them open up the windows. I'm tired of smelling it. [laughter]
Ann: Right. Well, or also sometimes it's like, hello, can you smell that?
George: Like, can you say, smell it please. I'm smelling it. We Black people were smelling it all the time. Right.
Ann: You know how sometimes you can't smell your own body odor. Like, that's kind of what's going on right now. [laughter]
George: And it's, you know, the, the, um, the, one of the lingering effects of this is this kind of, um, emotional toxicity. It just, it just hangs and it coats all of us and it just doesn't feel good. Like, it is terrible. It is terrible, terrible, terrible thing. And, you know, last year was the first time I heard white people talking about it, like as a, as a, an actual ongoing conversation. Um, and the awkwardness is still there. It's still very much like, you all are just starting. So I, I say that too, it's like toddlers, you know, everyone's just kind of learning to walk and everyone's kind of wobbling. And, and you're just kind of like, oh, and then you, you like fall a little bit and then you get up again. And, and that's what it's going to take. And I say that with no, no, you know, no shade. Like, that's what it will take. It will be awkward for you all for a while.
Ann: Right. And it's also like, you know, where are we now? It's like the first nose wrinkle recognition of the fart. You know what I mean? It's like, it's like, really, like, that's what feels awkward. Like as soon as you're moving toward the window to open it, it actually feels less awkward than just like standing around, looking at each other, being like, who did it. And the answer is, well, if you have to look around.
George: You dealt it, you smelt it. [laughter]
Ann: I really, I appreciate it. I appreciate this metaphor. I would love to hear about your present tense right now, you know, like what are you kind of moving through or thinking about?
George: Well, you know, I think that what I'm doing right now is an interesting trick. I am ahead and behind what I'm doing. You know, I am the subject, but I'm also making the thing, you know, I'm working on my first book as a title author that I'm, co-writing, designing, and illustrating called Illustrated Black History. And it's coming up next year. And it's about 400 years of, uh, American evolution through the eyes of 150, um, Black pioneers. But I'm also, I'm making the thing. And when it comes out, I'm going to be the person going on shows and talking about it. And that, and it's, it's a little bit different than most other people who are not making the thing, even though they're making the thing. And so I have a depth of possibility and how I'm going to be talking about what I'm doing moving ahead. That is just really exciting. I'm not just interested in talking about the thing that I'm making. I'm also talking about the engineering of how it is made. It's both the aesthetic part, but also the process part, and those are just mushed together for me. So that's the only way that I can, I can talk about, it's not just the front end of, of what I do. I'm always going to be talking about how, how the sausage is made. Vegan sausage is made.
Ann: Can you share, I just, I have a little bit of inside knowledge and I just, I want everyone to know about your process for these portraits that are appearing in the book, because I found out, I think kind of late, like what you were doing to honor these 150 individuals.
George: Yeah. I'm really, I'm communing with them. I have a, it's a very spiritual process. I'm creating portraits from not just the written biographies, um, and their, their quotes, but also just my own. I have a very kind of emotional way of creating a portrait. And I often don't know what tool I'm going to use. You know, this book is going to be very confusing when it comes out next, next year, because all of the styles are different that I'm, I'm starting a different style for each portrait. And so it will look like there are 15 different artists in this book, but it's all, it's all me. Um, and so I, you know, I completed a portrait of a bell hooks the other day where it looks like she's a constellation in the sky. And I think of her as a kind of, you know, um, I hope she's, she's not offended by this, but like a wood sprite of feminism, you know.
Ann: Yeah, Joy and surprise and possibility.
George: Yes. And, and it's such a brilliant writer and speaker of the possibilities of, of feminism that I just wanted to, to get at the playfulness. And, and what I'm trying to do is basically imbue every portrait with the humanity. I want to show the people, I don't just want to show the, the symbolism. And, and so many of our Black pioneers are elevated to this kind of, they become deities and they stop being human. And I am endeavoring to make everyone seem, you know, funny and interesting and studious and rageful. Like I want the emotion of who each person is to be present in, um, in how they're being presented. So it's really, it's a deeply emotional process, like a commune. I work with them and then I have to like, take a walk. You know, I have to take a walk for 10 minutes to kind of come back to myself. It's kind of weirdly method act. He, you know, but I've been doing this for the last three years and that's how, that's how I've been doing it.
Ann: And how are you communing with your mother through this moment? Or I was going to say through this process, but I know it's bigger than that.
George: So my mother passed away earlier this year from a very aggressive and sudden diagnosis of terminal pancreatic cancer. And she was, she was given the prognosis of six months to live, and then she ended up living for two and after her prognosis. So it to say that it rocked me and my family and her is an understatement. Um, you know, she passed away back in May. So it's been several months now, but it has been, I've been unspooling. Um, just what I have learned from the experience. I also became one of her caregivers in the final two months of her life. And so I had a really special experience of being with my mother, uh, as she died, uh, not just as she was dying, but as she passed. And so, and it's a singular experience, I'm going to be processing that for the rest of my life. It is a singular experience to be with someone as they die. And most people don't get that. They get that experience in a positive way. And so it was a really special, special thing. And I, I started a second book where I'm actually just writing prose, uh, that tells the larger, very Shakespearian story of my, the first six years of my life. Um, the story of my father, who was a sociopath and my mother and my family and grandmother, it's a, it's a very, it's a story that just was there. And she, my mother, gave me permission on her death bed to tell the story, because she knew that she knew what it was. And so that's how I'm honoring her, is telling this really heavy, dark story of the first part of my life.
Ann: And does writing that feel like caring for yourself through this process?--
George: It absolutely is.
Ann: Or does it feel difficult? Okay. I was going to offer another alternative, but...
George: Yeah, and, and it's a strange thing. Like most writers, I know, struggle with writing just as a discipline. Um, and for me, all of my practices, I approach them the same way. And I approached them with an interest and a curiosity. So I have been writing, I've been, I've written more in the last two months that I think I've written in my entire life and I'm just, it is just coming out and because it's so personal to me, I, it's not, you know, it's different than how a lot of writers write. It's really just my story. So it is just, it's been, it's been beautiful. It has been a really beautiful, and I also unburdening myself with, you know, this is a story basically that no one else knows aside from my mother. And so, even getting to share is, is unburdening the both of us, it's unburdening her spirit and it's unburdening my body. And that, that is what feels really good about it right now.
Ann: I want to end with a little lightning round. Yes. Number one. Favorite snack,
George: Favorite snack. I am a chips guy. I'm a chips with salt and pepper, the kettle, the kettle chips. I can inhale those, my studio mate, and I, we take turns, inhaling, mainlining, those chips.
Ann: I am also a chip guy. So I am really with you. I am really with you savory, savory all day.
George: Savory all day, all day, all day,
Ann: The last book, movie album that has really grabbed you and held on to you.
George: Well, this is, uh, this is gonna seem like a really narcissistic thing to say. I welcome that critique, but I designed a book that's coming out in a couple of it's coming out in October, and it is called Black Food. And it is the brainchild of Bryant Terry, who is someone that I've admired and known for several years. And last year he asked me to take part in this really beautiful process of telling food stories of the Black diaspora, all throughout the planet. And it is a work of art and I watched his dedication and I've been so inspired by him and what he allowed to be created in this, I have been thinking about, and the whole process was this very intensive year of gathering over a hundred, um, essays, poems, recipes, art, and putting them together as representative of our shared history as, as a diaspora. And I, and I don't think anyone else could have done that. And so I was astonished by his ability to do that and to have it sit so confidently and ready, you know, available for the world to take it in when it comes out, I am just, I'm still astonished that he pulled it off.
Ann: And also seems really to fit with what you were saying earlier about wanting to create lasting. You didn't use this word, but I would say like relics, like, you know, like things that can really affect--
George: Yes, artifacts. Yes, yes. That is how I think of that project. As a cultural artifact, it is a tangible thing that everyone will see and we'll be able to refer to 5, 10, 15, 20, like 50 years from now that's what I am doing. That is what I'm attempting to do. That is what is on my mind with everything that I do.
Ann: I love that. And finally, a bestie who you want to shout out who, who is someone who's been kind of core to this story, who you want to mention?
George: I have, I mean, we have a lot of mutual friends and I am very fortunate. I think I have the best friends. I have the best, best, best friends, but someone I'm going to shout out is actually in the next room. As I am talking right now, my studio mate, Georgia Hodge. Georgia has been integral, integral, integral to this. A lot of the conversations that the subjects that we have discussed in this, in this conversation, um, I've been having with Georgia for the last four years. And it's allowed me to sink deeper into, I will say that I didn't know how to be an artist. When I first arrived at the studio for having an art studio, which is out in the outer sunset neighborhood of San Francisco. I didn't know how to be an artist. I was just totally like faking it, like, and I learned how to really inhabit, like inside of my soul, inside of my body and the conversations, the open conversations that I have with Georgia around process and culture and race and, and all of that, that the humanity of art and what it provides for us internally and externally Georgia Hodges. I am so grateful to her for just being there. She's a magnificent human being and a super talented artist in her own righteousness, ceramicist and painter and muralist. And, we just get to talk openly about creativity. And it's wonderful.
Ann: I have to say all of that and a bag of chips.
George: And a bag of chips, and we share chips.
Ann: Quite literally, Kettle Chips, like we just discussed it. [laughter]
George: And we share the kettle chips. [laughter]
Ann: So cute. So cute. Um, George, this has been such a pleasure. I love you. I love your work.
George: Ann Friedman. This is totally not professional to say on Call Your Girlfriend. I love you so much. I love you. So, so, so, so, so much.
Ann: Aw mutual.
[interview ends]
Ann: There are links to much of George's work in the show notes. His website is McCalman dot co. We'll also link to his fine art show Returned to Sender Slash Tell Me Three Things I Can Do to Illustrated Black History, which you should, 100% pre-order and two Black Food, which will be available next week. See you on the internet.
Aminatou: I will see you on the internet. My love.
[outro music]
Aminatou: You can find us many places on the Internet: callyourgirlfriend.com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, we're on all your favorite platforms. Subscribe, rate, review, you know the drill. You can call us back. You can leave a voicemail at 714-681-2943. That's 714-681-CYGF. You can email us at callyrgf@gmail.com. Our theme song is by Robyn, original music composed by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs. Our logos are by Kenesha Sneed. We're on Instagram and Twitter at @callyrgf. Our producer is Jordan Bailey and this podcast is produced by Gina Delvac.