Summer of Friendship: Foxy Browns
7/23/21 - More from our Summer of Friendship series, where a few of our favorite podcasters tell us how they met, times their friendship has been stretched, and how they grow together. This week, dear pals Camilla Blackett and Priyanka Mattoo of the Foxy Browns podcast.
Transcript below.
Listen on Apple Podcasts | Stitcher | Overcast | Pocket Casts | Spotify.
CREDITS
Executive Producer: Gina Delvac
Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn
Composer: Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs.
Producer: Jordan Bailey
Visual Creative Director: Kenesha Sneed
Merch Director: Caroline Knowles
Editorial Assistant: Mercedes Gonzales-Bazan
Design Assistant: Brijae Morris
Ad sales: Midroll
LINKS
Check out Camilla Blackett and Priyanka Mattoo’s podcast, Foxy Browns!
Big Friendship is available from Bookshop.org | Indiebound | B&N | Amazon | BAM | Target | Signed copies available at Books Are Magic | McNally Jackson | The Strand
TRANSCRIPT: SUMMER OF FRIENDSHIP: FOXY BROWNS
[Ads]
Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend
Ann: A podcast for long distance besties everywhere.
Aminatou: She’s Ann Friedman
Ann: And she’s Aminatou Sow.
Aminatou: And we're back today. It's so fun to be back.
Ann: We are back. And, um, let me tell you the joy of saying like, we are not going to talk about ourselves today. We are going to let other people talk about their friendship. The joy is real. Um, this is yet another episode in our summer friendship series, where we are hearing from other pairs of friends who happened to be podcasters about the events that have shaped their friendship, the stories they tell together like about that friendship and the times that they have been challenged as friends.
Aminatou: Man, I'm so sick of talking about us and I never tire of hearing. Uh, other people tell their friendship story. So, you know, selfishly it's checking all the boxes for me, but, um, everyone that we have on these on the series are total pros and are also just like the loveliest humans.
Ann: Amazing. Who are we hearing from today?
Aminatou: Well, today we are hearing from our dearest Camilla Blackett and Priyanka Mattoo of the Foxy Brown's podcast. And, um, here they are.
[theme song]
Camilla: I'm Camilla Blackett.
Priyanka: I'm Priyanka Mattoo.
Camilla: We're the hosts of Foxy Brown podcast on Earios network.
Priyanka: It is a beauty and wellness podcast from the perspectives of two women of color. We are the women of color.
Camilla: Indeed.
Priyanka: And we are also friends. We're also real friends. Yeah. This is not purely a business relationship.
[laughter]
Camilla: The business has nearly the seasoning on top of our, on top our relationship, a sprinkling, a sprinkling even. Yeah.
Priyanka: Yes. We record our catch-ups and we, and we, uh, export them directly to a podcast near you. Um, so today we were talking about our favorite topic, our own friendship, and we're going to walk you through it and it just so happy makes me so happy. It's like when you talk to babies about the day, they were like, when you talk to kids about the day they were born.
Camilla: I've never done that.
Priyanka: So fun. It's so fun. And um, you kind of understand what it feels like every time we talk about, um, the day, the day we met. So let's talk about how we met. Do you want to start?
Camilla: We met on a general meeting, which if you are not a working writer in Los Angeles, a general meeting is basically something that your agents and managers send you on to go and have a completely vague meeting with executives and producers and actors all around town to just sort of introduce you to the, um, you know, to the industry and to people who you might want to work with. And usually these general meetings are pretty boring. Like it's very rare that you have like a fun general. They usually just, I've always described them as professional blind dates, because it's just like, it's a set up and you're hoping that, you know, you have chemistry and you might want to work on a project together, but that's so very rarely happens with general. I think I can count on like three fingers exactly how many times that I have ended up doing a project off of a general, but I have, like, I can definitely count more times that I have met people who I then had ongoing professional relationships with, but Pri I think it was the very first person that I had a general with in Los Angeles when I just moved here, who actually began a real friendship with.
Priyanka: I had a headstart because I, as the producer, I was producing at the time I got to read one of your scripts and that's just, that's an unfair head start because I read that I read the script, which was such, so your voice. Um, and I felt like I knew you already, which is always a weird kind of, because we sit down, I've got a big smile on my face because you're already my best friend in my mind and you know, nothing about me, nothing about me. So I'm just staring at you like three inches away from your face. Like we're going to be friends.
Camilla: And honestly, I mean, you're absolutely right. I mean, your instincts are absolutely correct. And it's so funny cause it was, um, I think it was when you were still, you were still working for Jack Black and I just remember like drivers so confusing getting to the offices. So it was like right in the middle of like Hollywood and I'm still figuring out how to drive in Los Angeles and it was just like chaos. And I just remember like coming into, you know, these very, very like cute offices and then like sitting down with you and I just remember feeling very, like, just very safe and just very taken care of. And like, I definitely feel like it was like, I don't know. I think the first impression I had of you was that you just felt like such a competent adult. And I was like, exhale was like palpable and yeah. I mean, you just seem to be very grown up and very sophisticated and, um, but it was, um, it's very difficult to pass, um, you know, between the, you know, the LA personalities, especially in a professional setting and everyone's very enthusiastic and it's to the point that it's mostly quite fake and it just feels odd. Um, and I just remember just sitting down with you and was just like, you seem like a real person. And, um, and you're just so smart. And I just, um, yeah, it was just like, and you just felt kind of, you've felt a bit like home, which I then obviously later found out that you'd also like, you know, spend some of your childhood in England as well, which I think contributed to why you felt so familiar to me.
Priyanka: Yeah. I had read this script and I was like, oh my gosh, she's so smart. She's so funny. We're going to be such good friends. She's British. This is going to be great. And you showed up and you also seem like a very competent adult, which I have to say you're a lot younger than me when I really think, I don't think about it that often, but you're like 10 years younger than me. You're just like, incredibly, you got, you started in the workplace very early and very young. So you seem, you're like emotionally more, much older than you than you are chronologically.
Camilla: I'm trying to embrace my inner teen more. That's my post pandemic goal. Like adulthood is overrated. I'm going right back to teen. I mean, obviously we both have like, you know, larger friendship circles that I made up from, you know, people that we've gone to school with and people that have gone to college with, or people that you've met professionally or just met out in the world. But is there, you know, what's something from this friendship that you don't necessarily get from any of your other friendships,
Priyanka: You know? Okay. We talk about this a lot. A you're just, I feel like we just have a mind-meld like we have, um, in many ways we're wired the same. We're very hard workers. We're very hard vacationers.
[laughter]
Camilla: Pri is the only other person in Los Angeles who understands that taking a month off in summer for vacation is the bare minimum.
Priyanka: It's crucial.
Camilla: Like, yeah. Like what, what do you do? What's the point of being a writer if you're not taking a month off in summer? Like, I don't make it sense.
Priyanka: The whole point is the flexible schedule. And also how can you work as hard as we do? I mean, Camilla and I always have four to five jobs going. It's just, we can't ourselves. We just keep saying yes to things and then freaking out. And then we take one month off as Camilla says to stare into the middle distance. And so A we're wired the same, but B we talk about this a lot. We both came up, um, in our lives, in school, in, um, in our early work, in very, um, white spaces. We came up in very white spaces. And so a lot of my peers were not, um, people of color and certainly were not women of color. I came up in a very male dominated space as well. So it was a lot of white men, which was fine. You know, I have a lot of white man friends, but, um, Camilla and I bonded over that. And immediately it felt like you were taking a course that offered you to your heels off at the end of the day or, and snapping your bra. And you can have like a real conversation about how both the weight of the world.
Camilla: Yes. And just also, you know, doing the weight of, um, often being like the only one within like a friendship group, um, which is something that happens when you work in like an like working environment or education environments, which are predominantly white in that you just automatically have like some predominantly white friendships. And it is this, um, there is a bit of a short hand and that you do just kind of see each other. You're just like, oh, thank God. Okay.
Priyanka: And we found through the podcasts that we've have that we get to extend that feeling because we invite on other women of color. It's just like everyone gets to sort of unbutton their jeans and go for it.
Camilla: Yeah. And it's, so that's exactly clear. The unbuttoning of the genes is such the perfect way of putting it. And, um, and it's honestly, I do think that like the podcast has an all through our conversations with other people and other women, it has like, it's, I feel like it's expanded our own conversations that we have with each other and also just our understandings of our own experiences too. Um, and for that, I just think it's just been like, aside from being like really fun and we like really enjoy the audience it's um, um, I think it's just been a gift to, I mean, for me personally.
Priyanka: Yeah. I agree. Cause I think we can be like eyeliner, moisturizer, patriarchy.
Camilla: Yeah. [laughter]
Priyanka: Okay. So what is one of our longest running inside jokes? Like, Hey, personal memes. Hmm. There are areas.
Camilla: Yeah. We definitely have areas and they are, I mean,
Priyanka: The umbrella of men is too headache. That's men is too headache is a big one.
Camilla: Definitely. Um, men is too headaches, um, just, oh gosh, men is too headache. I think, um, like some of my best friends are men and then, you know, some, some of my, some of my favorite husbands are men, um, also being, I think one of all kinds of long standing like jokes or just like areas is the experience of being like nonwhite women being married to white men and specifically white Americans. And, uh, you know, and it's, you know, our husbands are so sweet and so kind and so thoughtful and it's um, but this, this melding of experiences and worlds is, um, it's a rich area.
Priyanka: It's a very, it's a very rich area. And, um, we adore our husbands and we both have real problems, um, showing our vulnerable sides. So I think we both talk about our love for our partners as though we're like bleeding out and how awful it is, how awful it is to care about someone is just kill me.
Camilla: Endlessly distressing. I think we text that most. Like I, you know, it's like, I can't, but like I had got a dog at Christmas and um, like the amount of times I think I've texted pre I'm just like, so this is what it's like having to like, love a child. This is, this is agony. This is excruciating. I didn't like, why did I invite more love into my life? This is terrible. Now I have so much to lose.
Priyanka: Exactly. Exactly. The stakes are so high Camilla, the worst. Um, has there ever been a time when you worried your friendship might not, no, it might not make it?
Camilla: No. No. It was really, I think like maybe briefly for a second. I think when you were going, when I knew that, um, you were having, um, your second child and there is often that worry when you are the person in the friendship that doesn't have children, that when people have multiple children that they like, you know, the, like the family friendship circles become more dominant and you, you just see them a lot less. And I was like, I think I was like, I was like vaguely worried in the back of my mind that that could happen. And in fact the opposite happened. And I think I see you so much more like post her being born. And, um, and I think it also coincides like with like, we started doing the podcast as well and series we're spending more time together then. And, um, and yeah, but I think that's even, I think that's probably the closest I ever kind of felt like I was like, oh, is our friendship going to change? But in fact you just kind of maximized. And I just, and oh, and I just love this. I love this little girl so much. She is this. I mean, she is so you, she has just [laughter]
Priyanka: This morning I dropped her off at her preschool camp. And as she walked in, they tried to, one of the preschool teachers tried to hold her hand and she said, no. And they were like, oh, sorry. And she was like, I can't hold your hand. I'm holding my bag. It's just like, bye mom. And walked in.
Camilla: Oh my gosh [laughter]
Priyanka: Like the contempt for like someone who can't keep up.
[laughter]
Camilla: Someone sent around this great name, which was like, I wish I could hold all of my best friends when they were babies. And that's how I feel when I spend time with your little girl, I'm just like, yes, I get to like be in the company of what baby Pri was like,
Priyanka: She's so cheerful. Um, but that's so funny that you say that because I have heard of that happening. And I certainly have less time on my hands to socialize than I did before kids, but I'm so immersed in my children every day and every aspect of their day that like I seek out experiences that aren't my children's. So like, you have only grown in value to me. Like you were already a friend I adored and I'm like, ah, I can escape. It's so wonderful. Like here's someone who doesn't want to talk about, like, I don't know, poop, or like the new organic kid mattress, or like, I don't care. I don't care. They're all fine. The kids are fine.
Camilla: You know, that the only time I ever want to talk about poop is when it's in relation to, um, all nutritionist. That's it, that's it. Let's see. That's the one exclusion.
[ads]
Priyanka: Does your friendship have any third rails topics you just don't have with each other? Is there anything we don't talk about?
Camilla: Well I mean, I think we just established that we do talk about each other's poos, so that's, um, and that was probably quite. [laughter]
Priyanka: We just talked about our buttholes last week. [laughter] Buttholes, race, gender eyeliner.
Camilla: It's honestly, I do think, you know, the podcast has enabled, like, I think it has enabled us to be able to talk about pretty much everything. And I do feel that, you know, having this, um, you know, having the space where, you know, we're actually having to, you know, like the whole point of it is to talk about about stuff makes it, like, it makes it so much easier. And for two people who aren't particularly good at being vulnerable, it has, um, really opened up that space, I think for me. And I just feel a lot safer, being able to like, see pretty much like anything to you or kind of, sort of talking about something. And I do think even in like in the summer, last year during, um, the troubles and, you know, and I think that, you know, even as, you know, the identity of our podcast is, you know, that we are two women of color, but last summer being very specifically about the experience of what it is to be Black in this country or, you know, worldwide. And they're still, you know, there being a difference in experiences between being an Indian woman and a Black woman. And, but even I think that with, even in the, in the, in the, like in the difficulty of that conversation, having had the podcast behind us and being eight and having had those, you know, the entire year of view of talking about so many things made it so much easier to just yeah, to just work through stuff.
Priyanka: Yeah. I agree. I think we had a lot of tricky conversations that we maybe wouldn't have had and, and things that, and just that we might, uh, we had a lot of tricky conversations that we might not have been able to have if we hadn't set the foundation with the podcast, because we have a lot of really tricky conversations about race. And there are times when I might overstep or like not know about something and you fill me in, or there are times when you might not know about something and I feel you in. So we've covered a lot of tricky ground. Not that we're always, we're always making mistakes. And I think we're very comfortable with that. And even last year when all the, all the troubles were happening, um, and, um, you know, I was joking with Cam like, when is everyone gonna learn that I'm not their Black friend? Like, this is not my moment. And I, I don't want to suggest that you find a Black friend, but maybe hear me because I'm here to be your dividing round. Like, what is wrong with you? Um, but at the same time, you know, like, and then we talk constantly about how I, like, I kind of enhanced and have it. It's like, uh, being Indian is kind of funny because it's like white people of, there's a certain kind of white person that, that groups me in with them. And then of course there's people who group me with them. And so it's, it's just a funny, a funny place to be. Um, and, and, and I certainly, uh, in our space, in our spaces where it's still quite, um, where we're still playing sparse, unfortunately, you know, when people are like Pri what do you think everyone's thinking about George Floyd? And I'm like, it's really not my place. Maybe go read something, talk to someone, maybe learn, go learn, make the effort. It's so bizarre. So bizarre.
Camilla: It's so bonkers. Yeah.
Priyanka: What are the privilege and power dynamics that affect your friendship? Hmm. As I said, Camilla is the boss of me. Yeah. Basically.
Camilla: It goes back and forth because I think it's, I feel like my relationship is this kind of taking care, like taking turns, parenting each other, like, like sometimes, you know, like I am, Pri is more often mum. I'm like, I feel like I'm like, I've learnt so much more about just like being in this industry, but also just like, gosh, I mean, like watching you be a mother has given me so much of a, like, I mean, it's just, it's just constantly breathtaking to watch it. Cause you're also such a good mom and you're just so you know, so deeply involved and you just care so much. And you're just so thoughtful and intentional. And it is like, actually I remember years and years ago, actually, like I remember writing in an old diary, I came over to hang out with you with them when you had your first child. And, um, and you did something with him. And I just remember writing and I was just like that. She is exactly the kind of mother I would like to be one day. And, um, and yeah, and I think that going back and forth in terms of like, who was like the, like, you know, who is the parent in our relationship, because I feel like you've taught me so much grace and so much kind of just like, yeah, there's like a generosity of spirit that, you know, um, I feel like I'm, uh, I'm that I'm constantly getting from you. And then, um, I'm often on the end of the phone saying, no, no, no, you need to be a to this person. They're being an asshole. [laughter]
Priyanka: It's true, no boundaries. And you are very, very helpful for me as it like my north star when it comes to making work decisions, because you've been working in this business for a long time as a creative. And while I was an agent and a producer, I understand that world. I only started writing recently. So I'm always, Camilla is one of the, I was going to say a few people I'd take advice from, but Camilla is one of maybe three people I take advice from, um, because she has done it and she's done it well, and she's done it with integrity and she works on stuff she likes and all of her writing is great and she can do anything. So whenever I have a work question, I go, how do I navigate this? And she knows exactly how to do it. So yeah, we do. We kind of take turns out that it's funny because not many people get to see us meltdown.
Camilla: Yeah. It's, it's, it really is just confined to our text messages, maybe our husbands sometimes. Um, and, um, yeah, like a very, very tight circle. We can't let them see us flop. [laughter]
Priyanka: It’s like they’re all gonna fall apart if we, if they see us fall apart, which I know isn't true, but that's the... It's like a matriarch gene, isn't it?
Camilla: I think it's also like within our other respective circles as well. We're both people that, um, you know, other people come to for guidance and for advice. And so when we are with each other, I think we're able to, um, be the other side of that for each other.
Priyanka: Yes. I agree. It's, it's very, very comforting knowing you're there when I'm really, really having a hard time, but what are the values we share as friends?
Camilla: Long vacations.
Priyanka: Yes, long vacations.
Camilla: [laughter] Um, I think things being good. I think like, you know, in our work, I think things being, I think like caring about the things that we make and, um, and also, oh gosh, I think like also just championing other people and other people who are really talented. And, you know, I think that we share that same excitement when we come across someone who is, I mean, I mean, you were doing it actually as your job, as an agent in like finding new talent. And when we are enthusiastic about like, that is actually quite, um, that's quite unusual that not everyone does that and people can be quite, um, uh, kind of hoarding, um, their, um, you know, their, their resources and their tools. And I think that we're just very excited about sharing it with as many people as possible and having as many people in the room with us as we can.
Priyanka: Yeah. I think we both feel that the more we put into the universe, like the more we get back on, it's not a methodical, it's not a choice. It's just how we're built. We're built to be excited about things and you can't stop us. And that goes, that also extends to the people in our lives. Um, you know, I have met most of your really close friends, um, and it was like really, and I, and I loved them all and, and it was really distilled for me at your wedding where I looked around and said, you know, these are all incredibly decent, interesting, hardworking, very lovely people. Um, and there's that outside of like knowing what they did for work or, you know, all the cheesy stuff that LA people talk about. Everyone was like kined and fun and game and loving. And, um, you've built a really nice community around you. And I think, um, I have worked really hard on that too, and it's nice that they get to intersect sometimes. So, and we're when we feel that with our family too, we're super close with our families. So, um, so like family friends work like we have, we have, we really have shared values, I would say like the biggest difference truly. And the thing that I need to need to learn from you and text you about all the time in a panic is just boundaries. Because when you're giving, giving, giving, giving, giving you don't, I don't know how to stop sometimes.
Camilla: Totally. And it's also, and it's like, it's a, it's, it's active. I, my I'm I'm have to work on my boundaries every single day, because it's very difficult. I think when you have, um, personalities like ours, that we kind of, you know, want everyone to be pleased. It's very easy to keep saying yes to things and, um, and then be completely overwhelmed. And whilst it, you know, I think I say no more now, but it's behind every, no, that looks very easy is like my white knuckles going, no? Question mark. [laughter]
Priyanka: Knowing that, whenever I ask you for something, I always give you an out. And like, if you, if you can.
Camilla: Yes. You know, just to do that. And it's so great. I can't tell you how grateful I am for it. And it's so, oh, it's so great. Um, but it's practice. It really is practice of saying just more reps, just more reps. That's [laughter]
Priyanka: But Amina’s very good at this too. I mean, it's like codify it, write it down. This is your script and she's, she's a master. Yeah. She's a master at boundaries. Um, what rituals have we developed in our friendship?
Camilla: Let's see. Um, great tequila based cocktail. Enjoyed by the pool. I do. Like I do just love our babies swim days.
Priyanka: These are awesome. What I appreciate about you? You think kids can be fun. [laughter] You’re like yeah, come over, bring the kids. It'll be fine. And guess what? Yes, they are fine because the pool is wonderful and the tequila cocktails are wonderful and the snacks are wonderful and the kids are also invited. It doesn't have to be like, you know, sometimes you don't have a babysitter and that's nice too. I really, really appreciate that. Um, rituals. I mean, we do the podcast, man. We go to dinner. We, we, we have, we have drinks. We text a lot.
Camilla: Yes. I think rituals are really text messages that start with, Oh my God. Followed by something scandalous that we have seen online or that we've heard about within the, uh, within our workplace community.
Priyanka: We have a lot of threads going at all times. And the last question they had was how is your on-air friendship different from the off air offline version?
Camilla: Well, we don't name names on the podcast, I think is the largest difference. [laughter]
Priyanka: Yeah. Yeah. The podcast is a lot less catty, less dishy. [laughter] Uh, the podcast is very organized. Someone was like, wow, you guys just go through it. It's so tight. And I was like, yeah, because we have an outline.
Camilla: Yeah. We are writers and producers, what are you like, what were you expecting? It makes you super tight, 40 minute conversation. I'm like, no, dude, that's, that's all planned out. When you and I start talking, we'll go out. We'll go for it. We'll go for it. Like, it'll be 45 minutes. And I'm like, oh my God, I have to go. [laughter]
Camilla: Yeah. I genuinely think, like, I think the beauty of our, like the enjoyment of doing our podcasts is that we basically just found a space to just do off, like just to like perform our friendship just for other people. It's like, so we just do what we usually do with like a little bit more structure. And then, and then people listen to it. Great.
Priyanka: We really do. We have a Google document for every episode. And so we just type in like all the things that we're going to talk about. So it's kind of talking points and when I'm, when, even when we're not recording and I'm going to see Camilla, I, I have a notes. I have a note to my notes app of things. I'm going to talk to her about. So I do keep talking points anyway. Um, yeah, there's really not that much of a difference.
Camilla: Exactly. It's always like texting back and forth about recommendations or, you know, questions about like beauty products or just like life things. It's like, okay, I need, I need someone to organize my drawers. Like, oh, I've got the person. Oh, okay. I have like this weird spot on my face. Who's the person that can deal with this. And yeah, I mean, for that part, it just, it really is the podcast.
Priyanka: It really is. Um, and that's kind of it, that's our friendship. That's our friendship. In a nutshell, we adore each other. Thanks for listening.
Camilla: Thank you so much. This has been an absolute joy to you guys. Um, and we're so excited. The big friendship is out in paperback.
Priyanka: So thrilling. Congratulations.
[outro music]
Aminatou: You can find us many places on the Internet: callyourgirlfriend.com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, we're on all your favorite platforms. Subscribe, rate, review, you know the drill. You can call us back. You can leave a voicemail at 714-681-2943. That's 714-681-CYGF. You can email us at callyrgf@gmail.com. Our theme song is by Robyn, original music composed by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs. Our logos are by Kenesha Sneed. We're on Instagram and Twitter at @callyrgf. Our producer is Jordan Bailey and this podcast is produced by Gina Delvac.