Pilot Episode!
5/19/14 - Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend! We recorded this pilot many internet moons ago over too much wine but we hope you enjoy it. We’ll be on a #relevant internet schedule very soon. On the agenda: Special IRL circumstances, smug Californians, the Obamacare struggle is real, menstruation clickbait, Beyonce’s influence, and drunk online shopping. Plus: What’s in a name?
Transcript below.
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CREDITS
Producer: Gina Delvac
Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn
TRANSCRIPT: PILOT EPISODE
Ann: Hi, welcome to Call Your Girlfriend.
Aminatou: A podcast for long-distance besties everywhere.
Ann: Usually we are long-distance besties but today we are in the same room!
Aminatou: I know, we're cheating and we love it.
Ann: [Laughs] I love the idea of starting this off on the right foot which is actually kind of the wrong foot for this podcast conceit.
Aminatou: I know. But, you know, it's like looking into your eyes and podcasting, it's kind of exciting.
Ann: It's really bringing this relationship to a new level to do this across a microphone.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: I have wine.
Aminatou: Yes!
[Wine pouring]
Ann: It's a generous pour.
Aminatou: Yeah, that's a very adult pour.
Ann: So I am in Brooklyn right now in Amina's apartment, in your apartment. Wait.
Aminatou: Cheers Ann. First podcast episode that might actually launch one day.
[Theme Song]
(1:20)
Ann: So yeah, so I'm sitting in your apartment in Brooklyn which I admit has been a little bit trying for me. New York, not a very easy city. I have grown soft. As I said to you a couple weeks ago I don't fuck with inclement weather and I walked over here like a half hour ago and I couldn't even keep the umbrella open because there was wind and rain and my bangs look like I blew them dry with a big '90s round brush. It's just like . . .
Aminatou: Well no, Ann, you've grown really, really soft. Aren't you supposed to be from the Midwest? I thought you people were the only people who successfully made it in New York.
Ann: Oh my god, but the thing is you're not always outside in the Midwest. And the other thing is there's a Midwest saying, "There's no bad weather, there's only bad clothing."
Aminatou: Okay, cool. [Laughs]
Ann: But I'm just saying my wardrobe is totally geared for California. That is the problem. I only have one warm weather thing and I'm getting so sick of wearing it.
Aminatou: Ugh, smug Californians, you know? I love smug Californians better than I love smug New Yorkers though I will l say and I live in New York. I mean you guys are allowed to . . .
Ann: When our avocado intake gets low there's no account for . . . [Laughs]
Aminatou: Listen. Right now there are no avocados. There are no lines. This is the brave, new world we're living in. [Laughs]
Ann: But this is really the inherent tension of this podcast anyway that like we . . . in truth though we have been friends for five years?
Aminatou: Yeah, whoa. Really five?
Ann: I know. I know, we're like right up on our anniversary. In fact I think it was a few weeks ago.
Aminatou: No I think it's next week.
Ann: It's next week.
Aminatou: It's on our calendars. It's sometime in May.
Ann: Let's not have this fight in front of the public. [Laughs]
Aminatou: I think you're right.
Ann: Okay. But, you know, three of those years have been long-distance years. But yes, this inherent tension of who is smugger, the New Yorkers -- New Yorkers or Californians.
Aminatou: As an international person I don't really claim . . .
Ann: You don't support that paradigm? [Laughs]
Aminatou: Yeah. I don't support that paradigm. I really think anywhere you live is where you make it out to be. Like I've lived all over the world. American cities are not very exciting to me. I'm stuck here for now making the best of it. [Laughter]
Ann: Here being America?
Aminatou: Yes, here being America. When Barack Obama sets me free I will be moving somewhere else.
Ann: Ugh, even longer distance.
Aminatou: I mean, you know, longer distance or you can come with. I think you're ready for an international stay, you know? I think it'll transform you.
Ann: Are you my college counselor? Like yeah, I think you're ready for an international experience. Yeah.
Aminatou: I think so. Okay. I mean, okay, now that we've -- we're boring. We've talked about the weather. We've talked about where we live.
(3:50)
Ann: Well you mentioned Barack Obama. You've had some Obamacare struggles.
Aminatou: So I am having real Obamacare struggles and I think I can admit to them now that, you know, the website has rolled up and Michelle seems happy in all the interviews. But here's the deal: I left my job and the one thing I asked them was if I could keep my health insurance until the end of the month because I wasn't ready to fuck with the ACA deadline that was looming really early on. I read a lot of Internet but I was not prepared to wade into those waters. I'm really glad that I did because for the last week I've been trying to sign up for Obamacare and oh my god it's the hardest thing in the world and it's going to turn me into a Republican. I've been on the phone collectively waiting at least two-and-a-half hours. The website is shit. The UI is still shit. But it's okay.
Ann: But also, so let's say . . . so as someone who went through the whole process of getting insurance on my own in the pre-Obamacare era the only reason it wasn't hell for me is because my father is a small town insurance agent and I could call someone at his office. Like for civilians . . .
Aminatou: Oh my god, I could've called Big Terry and had this resolved?
Ann: Big Terry -- Big Ter would've hooked you up with his health insurance person.
Aminatou: Oh my god, I was trying to be independent and cool. I read all the online explainers because you know explainer journalism is big now.
Ann: Oh my god. What is explainer journalism? Why does it always have a series of bold sub-heads?
Aminatou: Why does it lie to you about the ACA? [Laughs]
Ann: Even Republicans like the ACA now. They just don't like calling it the ACA or Obamacare.
Aminatou: Whatever, the whole website is bullshit and the whole sign-up experience has been really, really . . .
Ann: But the point is the experience of signing up for insurance is totally shitty and that is a problem that I don't actually think is compounded by Obamacare; it's just now that's the way most people are experiencing it. Like if you had decided to go look for insurance on your own without the help of my very -- my father's all the skills, insurance skills he could marshal -- you would've had a hard time.
(6:00)
Aminatou: I know, this is why I don't fuck with administrative tasks, man, and why I think I'm going to stay employed in office world forever because I can't handle overhead. Somebody else has to do this work.
Ann: P.S. IRL podcasting update your wine glass is empty already. Put it down. [Laughter] You can tell you've had a rough day.
[Wine pouring]
Aminatou: I've had a very rough day trying to sign up for healthcare.
Ann: Ugh.
[Music - Obamacare Song]
Ann: Let's see, what else has been going on? Oh. [Laughs] This Week in Menstruation research.
Aminatou: Oh my god, did you read that article? But the headline obviously grabbed me because again explainer journalism, LOL. It was like why do I poop more when I'm on my period?
Ann: And you're like inquiring minds. Click, click. [Laughs]
Aminatou: I was like excuse me, I thought that was only like a me problem but apparently ladies in the land have been like asking.
Ann: But doesn't it make sense? I always think of like . . .
Aminatou: No Ann, it doesn't make sense. I don't know how period science works.
Ann: I mean I just feel like everything is -- all the muscles are moving down there.
Aminatou: So are you admitting to the fact that you also poop more when you're on your period?
Ann: Yes, of course. I just feel when there's very active lower abdominal muscles there's like collateral damage. [Laughs]
Aminatou: Yeah. So this article was actually very sciencey, duh.
Ann: As opposed to my explanation. [Laughs]
Aminatou: Yes, as opposed to your explanation of compressed insides. But I didn't know that the reason you got cramps is because blood was actually cut to your uterus.
Ann: I mean . . .
(8:00)
Aminatou: Ugh, the body is disgusting.
Ann: The body is disgusting. I also read -- oh my god, our awesome . . . our awesome . . . what are you Gina? Our awesome behind-the-scenes woman/producer Gina Delvac.
Aminatou: Yeah, Gina is the magic that makes the podcast happen. Hi Gina!
Ann: Hi Gina. Our editor and all kind of radio whiz sent us an amazing thread on Quora which is something I don't really dabble in but occasionally there's a very brilliant thread on Quora which was sort of like "Okay, why do we really get our periods?" And a zoologist answered in the most brutal way about how human reproduction is not geared to care about women at all and I was like ugh, you too biology? Et tu biology? Even you are geared against us? The answer is it's all miserable because it's prioritizing the fetus, not you, whereas other mammals prioritize the woman. Anyway, so yeah, so all of this. [Laughs]
Aminatou: That's so crazy. You were telling me there was a period story and that Sally Ride . . .
Ann: Oh yes, so I spent the last 24 hours binge reading a biography of Sally Ride, America's first woman astronaut, for . . .
Aminatou: Explain to us who Sally Ride is for nine points.
Ann: She actually used to sign letters jokingly AFWS or like America's First Woman Astronaut as like a joke to one of her friends. Anyway there were a couple very interesting anecdotes on it but one of them -- there's this whole section about NASA struggling to adapt to women like after her astronaut class featured five other women. But there's this amazing anecdote where NASA's engineers who at that point are mostly men are trying to figure out what to do about periods in space. And no one even asks Sally "How is your flow?" Like they don't even know how to ask that question.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
(9:50)
Ann: Instead they hand her this personal hygiene packet that is absolutely stuffed with 100 tampons and because they're going to be in antigravity she pulls them out and they're connected like a string of sausages, like all the strings are connected.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: And they're like P.S. she's going up there for seven days. Like even at the height, even on a couple heavy flow days, 100 tampons. Not to mention that Sally Ride is in heavy astronaut training and not even menstruating at the moment. Anyway, so that. Then there's also this amazing ride where NASA engineers wonder how the sort of space commodes are going to handle all that mucus women secrete.
Aminatou: Oh my god.
Ann: It's like that's not a thing. Women don't secrete weird mucus.
Aminatou: Why do you think men know nothing about periods or refuse to learn about it?
Ann: Ugh. And these are scientists too, like I don't get it. I don't know. It is pretty gnarly, like if I didn't have to . . . if it weren't coming out of my body I don't know that I'd make the effort to learn.
Aminatou: You don't think that you would care that there was blood coming out of something three to five -- ten days until my endometriosis sister's out there? [Laughter] You know, coming out of your body. You don't think you would care?
Ann: I don't know. I mean I'd like to think -- who's to say what kind of man I would be? Wow, this has gone in a really interesting direction. I would like to think I'd be the sort of man who would care about being knowledgeable about that sort of thing but I don't know.
Aminatou: Yeah, just the men know like nothing. It's so shocking to me.
Ann: Yeah, really they don't. I mean I feel like if we did have a late night show hosted by a woman stopping men on the street to ask them questions about women's anatomy would be an amazing segment.
Aminatou: No, it's true. I saw a name at the Duane Reade buying tampons and he looked terrified when we locked eyes. And I was like this is a scene out of bad movies. This is not supposed to happen in real life.
Ann: Right.
(11:45)
Aminatou: Like grow up. Just grow up or have your wife order that shit from email then you don't have to deal with it again.
Ann: I mean real talk. But yeah, even like NASA biologists cannot understand. What hope is there for the rest of us?
[Music]
Ann: What else?
Aminatou: What else is going on with you?
Ann: Beyoncé on the cover of Time Magazine.
Aminatou: Oh I have so many feelings about that. So clearly, you know, congratulations Beyoncé.
Ann: Because it's the 100 Most Influential People list. We should say that.
Aminatou: Yes, 100 Most Influential People list.
Ann: She looks good, then you consider the context.
Aminatou: You know she looks really good but I thought it was really dumb to have her in her underwear. I think if it was anybody else I would question whether the celebrity had signed off on the photo. Knowing how crazy Beyoncé's staff can be about that stuff you know that she has to have seen that photo and still thought yes, this is exactly how I want to be seen by the world. Which again it's Beyoncé, so much to learn about lady feminism situations on the Internet. But I guess at the end of the day who really cares right? But it still sends a message though. It was very disappointing to me.
Ann: This sort of brings up something that I've been thinking about a lot lately because I've worked on a couple of them for assignments but like the power . . .
Aminatou: Are you getting naked on a cover story Ann? [Laughs]
Ann: Oh my god, if only. If only.
Aminatou: For CGI.
Ann: No thigh gap. It's just going to be a solid like don't worry, I pledge to you today if I'm ever wearing a bathing suit on the cover of a magazine there will be no thigh gap.
Aminatou: Okay, cool.
Ann: Unless my legs are really far apart. Unless I'm doing power stands. [Laughs]
Aminatou: Listen, you can have a thigh gap if you actually have one.
Ann: That's what I'm saying.
Aminatou: If you don't have it don't fake it.
Ann: The only way I have a thigh gap is if my legs are really far apart. So unless I'm like spread eagle on the cover of a magazine there will be no thigh gap.
Aminatou: Oh my god, fingers crossed. Okay, back to serious things.
Ann: No, no, so the thing about this list, so it's like she's just the cover person. People are sort of saying she is the Time Most Influential Person. She's not. She's one of 100 people on the list and she's just the cover person. So, you know, by principles of magazine journalism who's willing to get the most naked? It's not Pope Frances, you know? [Laughs]
Aminatou: I would buy that magazine.
(14:00)
Ann: I mean. Right. However, side convo, you and I tear into Pope Frances. We can go there later. But, you know, I do think that the . . . her appearance on a list like that is a good thing. I think that recognizing cultural power alongside political power is a good thing. But the point is these stupid media lists that we're all tempted to be like whatever, it's a dumb, arbitrary list, are just these self-fulfilling prophecies. Like you as someone who has appeared on a very powerful list, Forbes 30 Under 30, what?
Aminatou: How embarrassing.
Ann: I'm sorry I'm doing it. But like that has really tangible results. People who make lists look to other lists and people who look to hire people look to lists. And it's just been made really clear to me that it is bullshit but it's kind of bullshit that matters. So in that sense I am really happy to see someone with cultural power and I'm happy to see a woman of color, you know, making an appearance at the forefront of that list.
Aminatou: Yeah, no. I mean I would be curious to see or read some of the writeups about some of the women in there, because even the Beyoncé one, Sheryl Sandberg never once talks about her looks. But the Megyn Kelly write-up is, god, what is that douchebag's name? Brit Hume? Is that his name? Yes, maybe, that guy. Nightmare.
Ann: I struggle with Megyn with a Y. I'm not going to lie to you.
Aminatou: I know, Megyn with a Y. Like not relevant to me, right? But also Megyn with a Y, I'm very conflicted about her. You know, because we're feminists we have to support her in general but also were she to die in a fire would I be sad? Probably not.
Ann: [Laughs]
Aminatou: So she . . . yeah, in his write-up about her like the whole point is how just beautiful she is.
Ann: Ugh.
Aminatou: And the first time that he saw her he looked at his wife and was basically like, you know, I'm heavily paraphrasing here, was like "This smoke show is going to be great on Fox News."
Ann: Oh my god.
(15:55)
Aminatou: Is what happens. And I don't know, that was very disappointing to read even from conservative people right?
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: It's like it's 2014. You would really think that some person would edit him and be like hey, focus on the fights, you know? Megyn Kelly, I don't love her, but is she good at her job? Extremely good at her job.
[Ads]
Ann: Hang on, what else is on my list?
Aminatou: You've got to have an agenda when you're talking so far away all the time.
Ann: Yeah, when you don't talk to someone -- like we do talk every day, let's be real. But when you're not in regular like oh, I see you all the time for a concerted hangout you've got to get in the important bullet points when you do talk.
(18:00)
Aminatou: This is my third glass of wine.
Ann: I know, you are just burning through this although look, there's a lot left. There's totally . . .
Aminatou: I know, there's a lot of wine left. Also Obamacare really scarred me today.
Ann: So another thing about being in New York that I have to kind of resist is I'm normally not at all tempted to randomly spend money on things.
Aminatou: You don't consider online shopping? You don't like reckless . . .
Ann: But I don't do a lot of reckless online shopping.
Aminatou: You know, people at your old address would beg to differ.
Ann: So let me . . .
Aminatou: Is the fact that every once in a while, and by every once in a while I mean a lot of times, she will drink a lot of wine and drunk shop and still have that stuff sent to her old address in Washington, D.C.
Ann: Where our friends Gabe and Michael now live and are always horrified by the vintage things I've purchased on Etsy while drunk. Oh, the other thing -- shocker that shouldn't have been a shocker headline that I read today -- was actual, actual news, vetted news. NPR's coverage of the study where they did a blind test. They sent university professors cold emails from a variety of fake names that were of the sort that were from a student address where they're like "Hey, I'm a student here and I'm really interested in what you do. Would you have coffee with me? Or could I stop by your office hours?"
Aminatou: And what was the surprise conclusion? [Laughs]
Ann: Surprise conclusion is that random professors always -- like the response rate for names, fake people -- the letters were all the exact same. Response rates for people with names that sounded white and male were like far higher, I don't know the percentage.
Aminatou: Shocker!
Ann: I know.
Aminatou: I'm so shocked.
Ann: But here's the thing. Here's what I wanted to talk about. Obviously we're zero percent shocked by this because it confirms the resume test from ages ago that people with black names or ethnic names do not get -- I'm making air quotes. Amina can see this, you can't. I feel like it's air quotes tone. You should hear it. But get fewer responses. But the thing about the study was even when they sent . . . even when women professors for example showed the same bias against emails from women and black professors showed a bias against names that would read culturally as black.
Aminatou: That's so fucked up.
(20:10)
Ann: And that is what's really fucked up. Like honestly, okay, I get some email -- I don't get a ton of email, but I get some email. You know, if someone's like "I'm a white guy who goes to Columbia J School" it's like bottom of the pile. I'll get to you in like three weeks.
Aminatou: I know. But Ann, you know, granted we are in violation of a lot of equal opportunity situations. [Laughs] Where yeah, for me it's not interesting to want to help some white dude with a white-sounding name, right? But that stuff is . . . I mean it's shocking and not shocking because I was reading about this other . . . about female compensation and how even women want to pay women less.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: And how just that whole . . . it's like yeah, women think of women as less. Men think of women as less. There's kind of nowhere to go there. But I don't know. I don't know how to change that stuff. I'm like absolutely not shocked by these studies but I just also -- I just also don't know where you start to even change that in academia and in hiring practices, right? I obviously have my own way of how I deal with it.
Ann: So obviously I was tweeting about this after I read it. A writer for the Harvard Business Review tweeted at me her article about attempts to overcome bias with stuff like this, and there are things you can do from an HR perspective with like blind hiring or whatever. But that stuff applies to more formalized processes. One reason why I thought this study was so great is it's the sort of type of informal connection that actually makes a difference to getting a job far more than like will you open my application?
Aminatou: No, totally. Like trying to get in touch with your professor.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: Maybe we should just all change our names.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: And then we can all be white dude names.
(21:45)
Ann: Well it's funny because it's something that I actually have a lot of . . . I really regret when I was younger in my career not cold emailing people I was impressed by, particularly women journalists I really respected. My college boyfriend who was also a journalist was really good about emailing people who I thought were just like oh my god, they would never answer an email from me. You know, people who are writing features for Esquire at the time or whatever.
Aminatou: Oh my god Ann, the confidence gap. I'm reading a book about this right now. [Laughs]
Ann: And they all -- oh my god. Yeah, exactly. This is total confirmation that I have no idea what would've happened because I didn't try but I did spend a lot of time being like oh, you failed your . . . your younger self failed you because you didn't reach out and make those same casual connections that he did. And I think this made me feel good because I was like oh, maybe they wouldn't have answered it anyway. [Laughter]
Aminatou: Okay, listen, confirming weirdo biases, as somebody who has a very unusual name already I feel like I lost that race a long time ago. So it's not something I like to dwell on because again who knows? Who knows what will happen? But yeah, I have a very unusual name.
Ann: People always pronunciation-check your name with me. It's like when they're scared to ask you. I'm like it's fine.
Aminatou: I know! They never ask me and they always say it wrong. I'm just like oh my god, calm down. I've already made my name as easy as it is.
Ann: Are you going to say it for the listeners at home?
Aminatou: Say what? Say my name? [Laughter]
Ann: You're acting kind of crazy.
Aminatou: And calling me baby.
Ann: I'll be like you just call her baby.
Aminatou: I'm like it's not hard! It's just Aminatou Sow. But it gives people all sorts of like . . .
Ann: No.
Aminatou: Yeah, again, like Americans. I'm just like it's not that hard, but also just ask me. Just ask me how to freaking pronounce my name, and people never do or will butcher it completely, you know? And I think we've talked about this. It's also the reason that I go by Amina. I think that's one of my biggest regrets is when I started college I was very . . . I was really self-conscious about having a different name and how it was so hard for people to pronounce that I was like you can call me Amina. It's not weird. Amina is the Arabic version of my name. When I was growing up in Nigeria a lot of people called me Amina. It's not crazy. But from a professional standpoint it really annoys me that I've had to go there because I feel like I made it really easy for people who never make anything easy for me.
(24:00)
Ann: But your Internet presence is very Aminatou.
Aminatou: I mean, you know, SEO baby. [Laughs]
Ann: That's what I'm saying. You and that woman with acid burns are the only two relevant Aminatous.
Aminatou: Yeah, so you know that other Aminatou, she . . .
Ann: Which would be an amazing thing for you to write about someday, the other Aminatou.
Aminatou: Well I feel like I can maybe not write about it because the way that I got the URL to my name is I'm pretty sure because she went to jail. [Laughs] She's this like Western Sahara activist, you know? Which nobody knows what the fuck Western Sahara is. So Western Sahara is this country that Morocco won't let be great. And so this woman Aminatou Sow -- hi, she even has the same last name as me -- she's been fighting the Moroccan government for something like 20 years. She also would not let me be great online because she kept being the highest search result for me. [Laughs] And so I always keep an eye out for when the Moroccan government is fucking with her. And when she was in jail for an extended bout of time I guess her URL registration went stale and Namecheap let me have that sucker for very cheap. [Laughs] So I feel terrible but I feel awesome. You know, I don't know. She'll be okay. She's going to be on the cover of the Time 100 before me so . . .
Ann: I wouldn't put money on that.
Aminatou: You never know. You never know. She's like the Aung Suu Kyi of Africa. She's going to get it.
Ann: I really . . . so this named conversation is really interesting to me as well because I'm really fascinated by the like -- I want somebody to do something about the number of people in . . . the number of celebrities who have changed their name. Because the day . . . so today I read this study about how people essentially react to names and their prejudices play out that way. Then Don Sterling, the Clippers owner, changed his name from something that looked too ethnic.
Aminatou: I know. I found this out yesterday.
(26:00)
Ann: And I was like oh, it's because you know how racists think. Like it wouldn't even occur to me but you totally know they're screening for that shit. But I kind of . . . I know there are many, many celebrities who have changed their names but . . .
Aminatou: Yeah, they're always changing last names or going by something really dumb.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: I feel like Katy Perry, is that her real name? That cannot be her real name.
Ann: I think it might be.
Aminatou: It sounds too quaint.
Ann: I think it might be.
Aminatou: I don't believe it.
Ann: But, you know, it's interesting. I would love to sort of talk to . . . especially, you know, it seems unfair to ask celebrities who are already representing a super-underrepresented group of people like "Why did you decide to change your name?"
Aminatou: Yeah.
Ann: Like something -- like Mindy Kaling springs to mind.
Aminatou: Well, so I told you this right? When you go through the whole asylum process in the United States they -- you get a couple of opportunities along the way to change your name. And this is . . . it's basically why a lot of Asian-Americans all have very American names. For assimilation purposes they let you do that. And so it's a question for me that every step -- like when I was going through the process that would always come up. And then now that I'm, you know, on the path to citizenship -- thanks O'Beefy.
Ann: [Laughs]
Aminatou: This is so weird. Yeah, but every once in a while somebody's like "Hey, your name sound really complicated weirdo ethnic person. Do you want to be like Tiffany Smith?" And I'm like "No, my name and my SEO are very important to me."
Ann: Would you add a middle name though? A vanity middle name.
Aminatou: Okay, listen, I want a middle name so bad. My family's Muslim. Muslim people don't really have middle names. I want something really expensive like Porsche or Cartier. Who knows?
Ann: Danger. I was going to go with Danger.
Aminatou: Danger or Downtown.
Ann: Aminatou Danger Sow is kind of an amazing name.
Aminatou: I've been thinking about it. I want a really obnoxious middle name. So I think in the name modification game that's how far I would go. But it was really shocking to me just how there . . .
Ann: Coercive?
(28:00)
Aminatou: Like yeah, people are so happy to have you change your name into something that's very convenient and palatable for your American audience. You can tell there's so much pressure to do that.
Ann: For professors screening your emails.
Aminatou: Yeah, for professors screening your emails. Had I known this the first time I was offered it I would've definitely changed my name to something cooler. But I don't know, my first name at least is very important to me. Like family, all that paternal bullshit, not really. But, you know, my name carries a lot of history, it's something I'm really proud of, and yeah, not going to let go for a while.
Ann: It's funny because when I was little I got really mad when I would ask my parents why they named me Ann. My mom was like "It was just the simplest, most classic thing we could think of." But now that I look back I'm like smart moves. Getting that application open.
Aminatou: I'm probably not going to have children because like many reasons but I always think if you're going to have kids you want to name them for success for the post-college years. And I feel like kids don't understand that. So you might have to be like, you know, three letter Ann and be really sad about that. But I feel like post-college that shit has served you really right.
Ann: You know it hasn't served me wrong. I wouldn't say it's served me really right. But like I feel I'm coming . . . when I was a kid I was so disappointed. Like all my friends who were Jessicas and Jennifers, I was like I'm so jealous.
Aminatou: Did you really want to be a Jessica?
Ann: I totally wanted to be a Jessica. Number one most coveted name.
Aminatou: That's so weird.
Ann: Yeah. Also my best friend was named Jessica so maybe it was just that thing where girls are envying each other.
Aminatou: Who's the other famous Ann Friedman?
Ann: Thomas Friedman's wife?
Aminatou: Do you get mail for her at all?
Ann: A friend of our -- a mutual person we both know once . . .
Aminatou: You have friends in common with Thomas Friedman's wife?
Ann: No, I was talking about you and me. Someone we both know.
Aminatou: [Laughs] I was like excuse me?
(29:50)
Ann: Who I will not name, there was some . . . I think it was like a New Yorker Talk of the Town about Thomas Friedman and his wife Ann with no E. And he -- this friend of ours or person we both know emailed me and was like "Yo, when did you marry Thomas Friedman?" [Laughs]
Aminatou: Oh my god. Kill it with fire.
Ann: And I was like -- seriously I sat there with the email open like are you serious? I don't know how to respond to this. Maybe . . . like anyway. So I obviously have a Google alert for it and it's obviously a very frequent middle name so Carol Ann Friedmans are tearing it up in pottery studios in Michigan.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: And Leslie Ann Friedmans are being elected to city council all over the place. But I'm really just . . . I'm pretty flat out dominating the plain Ann Friedman market. Like all the handles, all SEO.
Aminatou: [Laughs] I think I'm getting to the point where I've had too much wine now.
Ann: I think we might be at the end of the list.
Aminatou: I know.
Ann: Is there anything else we want to talk about?
Aminatou: I don't know. I'm super excited about starting this podcast. You know, I think the format is going to change. [Laughs] Week-to-week there will probably be less wine.
Ann: We're going to have guests.
Aminatou: We're definitely going to have guests. But mostly I'm excited, you know, as a way to catch up with each other and figure out what the fuck we're doing. Hey Ann, I'll talk to you in a couple weeks.
Ann: Oh my god, I'll talk to you in a couple weeks, probably actually long-distance. I'm so glad we forged -- I'm so glad we forged this in person. I think we should cheers again. Wait.
Aminatou: Cheers.
[Glasses clinking]