Low Key Creep
8/28/15 - We discuss the 1989 Tour, our favorite Trump: Ivanka, political scandals and LOLs, Drake+Serena and white people appropriating black slang.
Transcript below.
Listen on Apple Podcasts | Stitcher | Overcast | Pocket Casts | Spotify.
CREDITS
Producer: Gina Delvac
Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn
Thero & Taylor Wise remix of Call Your Girlfriend
TLC - Creep
Tours - Enthusiast
Janet Jack’s Son - Drake (Best I Ever Had) // (You & Me) // Flume
Hannah Rad edit of Robyn - Call Your Girlfriend
TRANSCRIPT: LOW KEY CREEP
Ann: She's a doctor. She wears sensible sandals. That's why she doesn't want to be a wife. It was like subtext, feminist wife, doesn't have to account for anything.
Aminatou: I cannot wait until Black Lives Matter actually learns about how awful Joe Biden is. Also he's a grabby, grabby old man, like he's so gross.
Ann: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend.
Aminatou: A podcast for long-distance besties everywhere.
Ann: I'm Ann Friedman.
Aminatou: And I'm Aminatou Sow. On this week's agenda we'll discuss Taylor Swift, BFF power couples, Ivanka Trump and her dad, Joe Biden feels, Hillary versus Bernie versus Black Lives Matter, our love of political scandals including Columba Bush and Marco Rubio's wife, Drake and Serena are dating and we're so happy, and the misuse of slang.
[Theme Song]
Ann: Hi Amina! What's up?
Aminatou: Hi Ann. I'm so good. I just made myself a fig salad, went to the farmer's market this morning. I'm still running on adrenaline. I feel great.
Ann: I mean I'm going to describe the fig salad for people who did not receive a photo of it in text message like I did. This salad was pornographic. I was lush and red and green and it was incredible. I think you can make some money, like maybe stock photo for sexy salad.
(2:00)
Aminatou: I know. You know there was an article this week about how salads are scams? I didn't actually read the article but I was so annoyed because I love salad. I think people are idiots who don't know how to make a good one.
Ann: Okay, I read that article and that article accused lettuce of being merely a vehicle for water.
Aminatou: Garbage.
Ann: Which I think is one of . . . I mean and what kind of lettuce are you eating? I eat my west coast hearty greens, you know? That's not just a vehicle for water. I'm sorry.
Aminatou: I mean I have been known to enjoy even an iceberg so . . . [Laughs]
Ann: Trust.
Aminatou: I just don't . . . that's where I drew the line this week. I was like this is click-bait. I'm not clicking on this.
Ann: I mean I clicked it. I'm not that strong. Anyway, your salad was beautiful. You're winning today. I met two major deadlines and I'm drinking a Trader Jose's knockoff Corona in my closet.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: Which we can talk about Trader Joe's ethnicized names for products at some later date, but anyway, that's what I'm consuming right now.
Aminatou: Trader Jose. [Laughs]
Ann: Trader Jose.
Aminatou: What else? I saw Taylor Swift yesterday and my life was changed.
Ann: This is your what, third? Fourth Taylor Swift concert?
Aminatou: Fourth. This is my fourth. I've been to all the big tours.
Ann: Oh my god. Tell me about last night.
Aminatou: Ugh. First of all I'm going to brag. I flew on a private jet yesterday and I don't know how civilians are flying in commercial flights. I never want to fly ever again. I was like life can be like this?
Ann: Okay, I have so many questions for you.
Aminatou: So that's my brag component for the day. It was amazing.
Ann: All right.
Aminatou: God, I sound like such an asshole but I just . . .
Ann: I mean you might . . .
Aminatou: This is how these Rich Kids of Beverly Hills on the show live and I had no idea. I never want to get on another plane ever again if it's not a private plane. It's ridiculous.
Ann: Okay, I'm not . . . yeah, that does sound a little Rich Kids of Beverly Hills.
Aminatou: I mean, listen, I want to be a Rich Kid of Beverly Hills. [Laughs] What's up EJ? But so before the show obviously I'd been reading about it. I was really familiar with the set list. And every time I go to a big arena show I always panic a little before I go. Ugh, why did I drop this much money on this? I already know all the songs. Blah, blah, blah. Like all of your concert anxiety. And then you get there and there's like 30,000 freaks just like you and you're like okay, I'm at home again. It's fantastic.
Ann: You understand why those weird people get married in group weddings and stuff. Like it takes something you're already excited about and just turns it up to 15.
(4:30)
Aminatou: Yeah. And last year I also made a rule that I would stop going to indie show, like cool band concerts because I actually hate that experience. But the stadium . . .
Ann: That has been your policy for a while, though. Let's be real. You've had a stadium-only concert policy for almost as long as I've known you I feel.
Aminatou: Yeah, because it's just worth money. I'm tired of like . . . yeah. So life-changing. The whole time before I wondered who the secret guests were going to be. I was really hoping it would be Future or Jidenna because you know Taylor is in need of black people. And the Seattle crowd got Fetty Wap and I was so jealous.
Ann: What did Seattle do to deserve Fetty Wap? That's what I want to know.
Aminatou: I don't even know. I mean they got Sierra which fine, you have Sierra. I don't care.
Ann: I would've been excited about Sierra. You wouldn't have been excited about Sierra at all? Come on.
Aminatou: No, I just . . . I have some really just meh feelings about Sierra lately and I think that they're tangled into my love of Future. [Laughs] And in the wake of their relationship breakdown I chose Future.
Ann: I feel like this is like pop culture psychology. It's like okay, well tell me why you feel the way you do about Sierra. What's the feelings you're going through?
Aminatou: I mean name like four good Sierra songs.
Ann: I mean I can't.
Aminatou: Exactly.
Ann: I can't. But look, she doesn't have to sing four songs with Taylor; she has to sing one. Right?
(6:00)
Aminatou: Fair enough, but here are the secret guests. Ellen did her weird Ellen thing and then Natalie Maines from Dixie Chicks. That's when I started cheering up because I love the Dixie Chicks.
Ann: Playing to your Texas so hard.
Aminatou: Oh, 100%. And then Alanis Morissette. You ought to know. That's like when I cried. I full-on cried.
Ann: I was wondering when I saw that Alanis was there yesterday, I was like you know for the teenagers that are there is this the way I felt about Blondie or something when I was a kid? Like ancient.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: Not ancient history but old enough to just be like oh, yeah, that was not on TV in any time in my memory. You know, it's retro.
Aminatou: Yeah, but the kids knew all of the words. It was so the best. And Taylor obviously was so into it. I'm so glad I saw her in L.A. instead of San Francisco because San Francisco got Joan Baez, LOLOLOL. [Laughs]
Ann: Oof.
Aminatou: I would've asked for a refund, real talk.
Ann: How many roads would I walk down to not have to listen to Joan Baez over the Dixie Chicks or Alanis?
Aminatou: Yeah. You know how Taylor is always talking about her squad goals? I'm like literally Taylor Swift, Joan Baez, and Julia Roberts is nobody's definition of squad goals. I don't know what you're talking about.
Ann: But did you see -- I mean did you see that video of the girl who was sort of parodying the randomness of Taylor's special guest choices?
Aminatou: Yes!
Ann: Where she was like "And now let me bring to the stage . . ." and it's just this totally incongruous group of people.
[Clip Starts]
Female: Please welcome to the stage -- they've been through a lot but now they're here -- the women survivors of ISIS! Welcome to the stage Hillary Swank, Laura Linney, Laura Dern, Reese Witherspoon, Hillary Clinton, [0:07:47] . . .
[Clip Ends]
Aminatou: Yeah, like in L.A. they also had Chris Rock and who else? Joey Tribbiani, because you know how Taylor loves her friends. And yeah, it's so weird. Especially as the tour is winding down you're just like which celebrity has she not invited?
(8:05)
Ann: Right, slash who happens to live in that town and is like yeah, I can drive over. I'll be there.
Aminatou: I know. But yeah, no, it was great. There's a Taylor backlash coming on. I have feelings about it. But honestly best two hours of my life yesterday. Thank you Taylor Swift. That was worth every single penny and more.
Ann: Great. I mean I can't wait to someday be a part of the montage interview clips about what a great person you are when you go on an arena tour. That's all I have to say.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: I can't wait to be interviewed about just like everything that you've done for me and just your contribution to society and how much you love snacks.
Aminatou: Ugh, thank you. Thank you. I can't wait. I'll be like "Hi everyone, introducing my friend Ann Friedman." [Laughs]
Ann: Welcome to the stage. She can't dance and can't sing.
Aminatou: I know. I have the honor of introducing . . . so sad. But, you know, yesterday at the same time there was an amazing Carly Rae Jepsen concert and I'm really sad I missed that.
Ann: I know, at a much smaller venue with just as many celebrities I think.
Aminatou: I know. Friend-of-the-podcast Lindsey Webber spotted Tom Hanks [Laughs] and I was like that's maybe the best celebrity spotting.
Ann: Oh yeah, former podcast guest Lindsey Webber.
Aminatou: I know.
Ann: There are very few people we can say that about.
Aminatou: I know, Lindsey Webber forever, you know? She is great. Her Tom Hanks spotting, A++.
Ann: I saw her photo of it on Instagram and it was like trying to spot Sasquatch. I was like is that Tom Hanks? I know that's what you photographed but . . . [Laughs]
Aminatou: Oh man, maybe one day we'll do a whole podcast episode about my theory that Tom Hanks is a black man.
Ann: Did I ever tell you about the time I was really stoned and sitting right next to Tom and Colin Hanks at a brunch place in New York?
Aminatou: Stop.
(9:55)
Ann: And they both ordered the same sandwich and I kept trying to indicate to our mutual friend Josh who was sitting to our left and it was just not working because of the extreme level of stonededness. I don't know. Anyway, I was very close to Tom Hanks and I would love to hear more about this theory because he looked very white.
Aminatou: Tom Hanks is passing for a white man. He looks just like Cab Calloway. It's like a thing.
Ann: I'm going to Google this.
Aminatou: I'll send you some evidence later. Maybe we'll post it on the website, but yeah. Also it would explain Chet Haze who is America's worst rapper and son of Tom and Rita. I sat next to Rita at the Girls premier last year, or earlier this year. She smells incredible.
Ann: All rich people smell incredible, right?
Aminatou: She's so nice and she smells so good.
Ann: I just assume everyone rich smells good.
Aminatou: Eh, that's not true.
Ann: If you're in a private plane you can afford to control your smell environment.
Aminatou: Listen, only smart people like us know about the importance of smells.
Ann: [Laughs] Well listen, because you brought up Taylor I feel like I have to talk about this article from T Magazine that was about female BFF power couples.
Aminatou: Oh yeah, tell me.
Ann: So Taylor was sort of one in a series of examples but I'm going to read this little excerpt. The author, Emily Witt, says "Lately we've been inundated with images of real-life best friends triumphantly displayed. It's difficult to get through a day on the Internet without looking at photos of women flaunting the depth of their intimacy by posing over dinner or watching television together in matching pajamas. We now flick through images not of celebrity couples but of celebrity friends." And like Taylor and the Haim sisters are like one of the many examples. All of Taylor's squad photos. And my feeling about this is like okay, maybe they're idealized images of female friendship and maybe all of those women in every photo are not as tight as they want you to think they are or they have problems and fight too. But I would so much rather idealize healthy female friendships than I would hetero-normative relationships. She's sort of like "Isn't this just a different kind of ideal we can't live up to and isn't that bad?" There is a difference between saying this is an ideal you have to live up to and being like this is the type of relationship we want to model more often.
(12:15)
Aminatou: Yeah. I don't know, have you read the Elena Ferrante books?
Ann: Oh my god, so the Elena Ferrante book is like her example in this article of a better take on female friendship. She says it's more complex, that's why -- she's not sort of saying all versions of female friendship presented online are bad. She just says this over-simplified Instagram version of it is bad, and so she actually says those are good.
Aminatou: Yeah. I would recommend the Elena Ferrante books because I think it's a little more complex and deep but there's so much of it I don't agree with. I think that a lot of the Instagram friendship -- Lindsey Webber that we talked about earlier coined this amazing term last year BFF Marketing in relation to Taylor. Before Taylor adopted squad goals Lindsey saw into the future and coined BFF marketing. And, you know, I think a lot of it is just tied into FOMO, right? Fear of Missing Out. You're just like here are all the famous people she's hanging out with; here's what she's doing. But I don't know. I think, to me, it is worth it to see women celebrate their friendships with each other than, yeah, the hetero-normative love stories. And, yeah, it's like close friendship is worth celebrating, right? But read the Ferrante books because those ladies are crazy and I feel like you just learn so much more about compassion from that trilogy.
(13:40)
Ann: Yeah. I also think that you have to consider the source here which is if Taylor Swift were posting tons of photos of her in a romantic relationship you wouldn't also get posts about them fighting or how things are tough. It's sort of like the general tendency of either not wanting to show too much about your personal life, whether you're a celebrity or normal person, and then the general pressure to be upbeat about things online. It's like that's going to happen no matter what. That is a price I'm happy to pay for more visibility for female friendship.
Aminatou: Fair. Fair enough.
Ann: Great. Glad we settled that.
Aminatou: We were on the vanguard of BFF Marketing.
Ann: I mean surfing the friendship wave.
Aminatou: Peaked too soon. Peaked too soon. [Laughs]
Ann: No, we haven't even peaked yet. Don't even say that.
Aminatou: I mean speaking of not peaking yet can we talk about the incredible shout-out we got this week? I usually do not care about shout-outs even though in the shout-out economy I'm the richest person.
Ann: I just almost spit my Trader Jose's knock-off Corona into the microphone. [Laughs]
Aminatou: But Ivanka Trump, daughter of Donald Trump, [Laughs] said that we're one of her favorite podcasts.
Ann: Okay, are we sure though that this was not someone who works for Ivanka Trump?
Aminatou: Oh, Ann, 100% it's somebody who works for Ivanka. I don't care.
Ann: Thank you. Just factcheck.org, I'm just saying.
Aminatou: Please. Under no illusion. Also they spell my last name wrong. [Laughs] Whatever.
Ann: I mean eye roll.
Aminatou: But I was like of all of the weirdo we are aware of your podcast, that was my favorite. Also low-key I love Ivanka, man. I own Ivanka shoes. I have been supporting her for a long time.
Ann: Tell me, Ivanka shoes, on the spectrum of celebrity footwear, are they better than Jessica Simpson and Carlos Santana?
Aminatou: Okay, you can't talk shit about Jessica.
Ann: No.
Aminatou: J. Simps is like the queen. Ivanka comes close but nobody will beat J. Simps. She just has a lot to prove.
Ann: So better than Carlos Santana but not as good as Jessica Simpson?
Aminatou: Definitely better than Carlos, like very comfortable. And you would think kind of . . . it's not on-brand for me, you know, because I'm not like a clubbing lady. But every once in a while you're at a Dillard's and you're like okay, this is comfortable as fuck.
Ann: [Laughs]
(16:08)
Aminatou: Looks good. What's up? Also I love to support lady entrepreneurs, man.
Ann: I mean Ivanka, she is. She is. She has that whole . . . I will confess that I had not spent much time on Ivanka's website before clicking this link to her staff person's endorsement of our podcast and I was like . . . anyway, P.S., shout-out to Ivanka's staff we should say.
Aminatou: Yeah, Ivanka's staff forever. Love you ladies.
Ann: But I did not realize that she was going the full Goop direction with things.
Aminatou: Oh, Ivanka's been going Goop. She's my lifestyle guru. She just knows what's up.
Ann: Great.
Aminatou: Just impeccable.
[Ads]
(19:40)
Aminatou: Also Ivanka's dad in the news. [Laughs]
Ann: [Laughs] Maybe we can just make a pact to only refer to him as Ivanka's dad moving forward on this podcast?
Aminatou: Yeah, he's Ivanka and Barron's dad as far as I'm concerned.
Ann: Yeah. Great.
Aminatou: Barron Trump is my favorite nine-year-old. He's so fly. We already talked about how much I love his hat but can I read something to you that was in the news today?
Ann: Obviously.
Aminatou: It was on time.com. The title of this article is Donald Trump Supporters Vent Frustration in Frank Luntz focus group. But best line: "We know his goal is to make America great again," a woman said. "It's on his hat and we see it every time it's on TV. Everything he's doing, there's no doubt why he's doing it, to make America great again." The hat is the best platform. He doesn't need a website. He doesn't need a policy platform. What a time to be alive. Donald Trump supporters are crazy.
Ann: I mean it's really like the major league sports approach to presidential marketing which seems very smart, like that seems to have gone pretty well for professional sports to be like yeah, you know, a hat and a really good slogan. We'll see.
Aminatou: Yeah, I'm fascinated by Trump. He had this ridiculous interview with Chuck Todd last week and Chuck Todd is like "Tell us about the wall around Mexico, what's going to happen." And Donald Trump is like "Chuck, I'm the best builder in the country. I'm going to get it done." [Laughs] I was like I can't cite that.
Ann: Also does Chuck Todd still have that goatee?
Aminatou: Yo, Chuck Todd had that goatee since he was seven years old. He looks exactly the same. [Laughs]
Ann: Baby Chuck Todd was born with that goatee.
Aminatou: Yeah, and he got a promotion so he's Mr. The Face of Everything on MSNBC now.
Ann: How can you make him the face of everything with that goatee?
Aminatou: Because Washington, D.C., Ann, we don't care what you look like, we only care what you think like.
Ann: I mean, again, some problems there. But Trump's fence, is he going to put the slogan on the fence do you think?
Aminatou: Probably. I mean Trump is crazy. He's actually crazy. It's like Donald, what are you going to do? You're always having fights on social media. How can we trust you not to have a fight with Saudi Arabia?
Ann: Right.
(21:52)
Aminatou: And he goes "I sell them a lot of apartments, millions of dollars worth of apartments. We get along." [Laughs] It's like now it's funny to me but I'm actually low-key worried. It's like on one hand I love that he's just forcing Republicans to deal with the fact that they're awful people. You know, I'm like this is the monster that you created.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: But at the same time it's like I talked to some of my friends' parents who are Trump supporters and they all tell me the same thing. Like you know, "Amina, he just says what we can't say. He just says what he thinks." And I was like man, this is dangerous. Danger, danger.
Ann: Wow, racist change you can believe in. Things you don't want to say yourself.
Aminatou: For real.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: For real. He doesn't care. They're like "He can't be bought. He has billions." And I'm like actually it's debatable how much money he has.
Ann: Right, and actually anyone can be bought because you know how expensive it is to run a presidential campaign? [Sighs]
Aminatou: Yeah, no, everybody can be bought. And now also Joe Biden wants to run which I'm very annoyed at.
Ann: I mean can we all take a little moment? I want the nation to collectively put a caring hand on Joe Biden's shoulder and just be like "We love you. We're never going to love you more than we love you right now so stop trying to get us to love you more." Just end it there.
Aminatou: Here's the thing about Joe Biden. I think that in the Obama presidency he's remade himself into this happy-go-lucky Uncle Joe character. You know, he gave us marriage equality. He is really chill.
Ann: He's meme friendly.
Aminatou: Yeah, you know, he's had a lot of tragedy so we're supposed to emphasize. But people have a really short memory. Joe Biden is an evil man. First of all if you go back to the Anita Hill hearings he stopped other women from testifying to corroborate Anita's testimony which 1) is evil but 2) makes him directly responsible for Clarence Thomas and there's a clear line to that to how the Voting Rights Act is getting gutted. 2) That man wrote the 1994 crime bill that is the reason -- you know, everybody talks about Bill Clinton and how bad he was for crime and prison and all that stuff which is true but Joe Biden actually wrote the bill. So when I see all these people of color and like . . .
(24:00)
Ann: And then tried to atone with the Violence Against Women Act which was not enough of an atonement.
Aminatou: No, totally. But when I see black people especially be like "Yeah, we need an alternative to Hillary, Joe Biden," I'm like I cannot wait until Black Lives Matter actually learns about how awful Joe Biden is. Also he's a grabby, grabby old man. Like he's so gross. All of these pictures of him just non-consensually touching women and whispering in their ears. He's such a low-key creep and he cannot be our president. No way.
Ann: Wow. I feel like we should make that available in clip format just for posterity so people can easily link to it on Twitter, etc., if and when he declares his candidacy.
Aminatou: I'll put it on the website. Put it on the website.
Ann: Great. I would like access to that.
[Music]
Aminatou: I think that there's something too about a lot of people have strong feelings about Hillary but at this point with the Democrats it's just you're feeling that the white dudes are anybody but a woman, you know? So everybody is just throwing their hat in the ring and I'm like hmm, this is suspicious.
Ann: Well it's also noteworthy that there is a statute of limitations on calling out really reprehensible stuff from the past of every candidate but Hillary. I feel like that is also a theme of that Biden assessment which is like oh, yeah, I only remember him from the past eight or so years and he seems pretty good.
Aminatou: Right? Everybody is attacking Hillary on crime and I'm like Hillary was merely married to the crime bill. Joe wrote it. Just stop. Just stop. Yeah, and it's like she has to pay for the sins of her husband everywhere and I'm like you guys remember she was first lady. You can't just pin all this stuff on her.
Ann: Tell me what you think of Bernie's sort of awkward, bumbling overtures towards Black Lives Matter.
(26:10)
Aminatou: Ugh. I'm so over Bernie, man. God. It's like where do you even come from? You know, on one hand it is really . . . it is kind of wonderful to watch a white man especially just shut up and listen to black people every time they want to storm his platform. But at the same time, I don't know, I feel like Bernie to me is a distraction. I can't handle it.
Ann: But you know what I keep wishing? You're right, he does shut up and listen but there have been at least two incidents that I've watched where once it becomes clear that these activists are standing up to ask questions he just kind of steps off to the side and they speak which is great but I also am sort of like actually what I really would like to hear from you is an engaged dialogue with them on the spot and share that platform so what they say is not just "And they were allowed to speak." It's like what you say is part of boosting what they say and making it newsworthy.
Aminatou: Yeah. Did you see the Hillary Clinton video with her and the Black Lives Matter activists?
Ann: I did. I did.
Aminatou: It's kind of incredible because the way the girl who talks to her is so nervous about calling her out and criticizing her and Hillary just stands there and listens, but she's so firm.
[Clip Starts]
Female: . . . and that was policies were actually extensions of white supremacist violence against communities of color. And so I just think I want to hear a little bit about that, about why those policies are being enacted when they're ripping apart families and actually causing death.
Hillary: Yeah, I'm not sure I agree with you. I'm not sure I disagree. Any kind of government action often has consequences and certainly the war on drugs which started back in the '80s, right, has had consequences, increasing penalties for crime and three strikes and you're out and all of those kinds of actions . . .
[Clip Ends]
(28:12)
Aminatou: Also you realize that yeah, Hillary wasn't an activist but she's worked with activists her whole life and she has proximity to that world so she gets the language. She was really firm. She was really respectful. And also the only time I think we've seen her in years be completely off-script.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: And I was like thank you for being a real human right now. I really appreciated that moment. It's like you could tell that her and the activist didn't agree on everything but she knew what she was talking about, she gave them the space to talk, and they did. They had a real dialogue.
Ann: Right. I mean I also appreciated her comment of, you know, feels don't change policy.
Aminatou: Yep.
[Clip Starts]
Hillary: So all I'm saying is your analysis is totally fair. It's historically fair. It's psychologically fair. It's economically fair. But you're going to have to come together as a movement and say "Here's what we want done about it," because you can get lip service from as many white people as you can pack into Yankee Stadium and a million more like it who are going to say "Oh, we get it. We get it. We're going to be nicer." Okay? That's not enough, at least in my book. That's not how I see politics.
[Clip Ends]
Ann: And I think that you can actually respectfully disagree with her point-of-view that you must enact policy for any sort of social change to be real. I think that there's plenty of issues to take with that. But in terms of where she sits and at least theoretically what they're asking from her as a potential president I thought that was a pretty good response.
(29:45)
Aminatou: Yeah, no, it was great. Thanks Hills.
Ann: Ugh.
Aminatou: God, it's going to be a long . . . not even a year until the election. It's only August. I'm exhausted already.
Ann: I keep thinking that at some point we're going to come back to record in another two weeks and there just won't be any pre-pre-presidential campaign news and we won't talk about it but it's not going to happen, right? We're just going to do this for two years.
Aminatou: Yeah, I mean it's . . . yeah, we're going to do this for two years and we're just going to get an ebb and flow of who says the dumbest stuff? It's like Jeb Bush and his anchor baby problems.
Ann: Ugh, my god.
Aminatou: And I'm like do you not know the difference between birth tourism and anchor babies? Also the fact that it's 2015 and conservatives think it's still an okay thing to say anchor baby, disgusting. Disgusting.
Ann: I know. Well that's one of those like oh, wow, I can see who's working for you: people who look exactly like you. When you say stuff like that there's no one throwing up a flag in the room being like "Actually maybe I would phrase your racist thoughts a little differently."
Aminatou: I know, but Jeb has the problem in that he has to run against Trump, you know? So he has to say something equally outrageous. But also all anybody wants to ever talk to him about is how he lost all that weight and he keeps talking about his paleo diet.
Ann: The Huckabee problem.
Aminatou: I know, I love it. It was like Jeb, how did you lose all this weight? It's like paleo. Then he whispers "I'm hungry all the time." [Laughs]
Ann: Can you please slip a donut under this podium?
Aminatou: I'm like I support you. I'm over Jeb but I really want to read a good Columba story. Jeb Bush's wife, to me, she's the real MVP of the entire . . .
Ann: Well I'm convinced there's not . . . I mean until she decides that she wants one to be written there isn't because Hunter Rosen wrote an incredibly long I thought feature about Columba in The Atlantic a couple issues ago or maybe it's the latest one where there's just not that much about her. Like it's very . . .
Aminatou: Yeah, she refuses to be in the public eye.
Ann: Yeah.
(31:48)
Aminatou: I mean it's because she's had missteps like the time she tried to smuggle all that jewelry in the country and also they have a daughter who obviously had a drug problem in the '90s and '80s and she just refuses to be a political wife which I support but I'm like hmm, it's going to be a problem soon lady.
Ann: Yeah. I remember Howard Dean's wife which now I feel terrible I cannot remember this woman's name. Do you remember her name?
Aminatou: No, I don't.
Ann: Yeah, but everyone was like "Oh, she's a doctor. She wears sensible sandals. That's why she doesn't want to be a wife."
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: It was like subtext feminist wife doesn't have to account for anything. And I think that because Columba can't be like "I'm a doctor" or something like that she's going to have to at some point relent to the touchy, feely, sit-down interview about when she and Jeb first fell in love and her charitable priorities as First Lady.
Aminatou: Which is kind of an amazing story, you know?
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: They fell in love at 17, and then he brought her over. Can you imagine bringing over your Mexican girlfriend to your George H.W. . . .
Ann: To meet the Bush family?
Aminatou: Yeah, that's like madness.
Ann: Yeah, this article. God, it was heartbreaking. This article described her just sitting there silently and half-smiling while everyone talked because at the point at which she met them she didn't speak English at all or very well. Yeah.
Aminatou: Yeah, no, Jeb's the only white man who speaks good Spanish. I'm like you are the poster child for Spanish as a second language. Thank you.
Ann: Oh yeah, half of this article was endorsements of how Jeb's Spanish so easily transitions between the Cuban-American community and the Mexican-American community and all the nuances of how incredible Jeb's spanish is. It was like great.
Aminatou: Yeah. I want to be on Team Jeb, man, but you know, sorry Jeb.
Ann: But anchor babies. But anchor babies. That's why.
Aminatou: Yeah, but anchor babies. I'm like I can't. I can't condone this.
Ann: Yeah. Oof.
Aminatou: Looking good, very svelte. Good for you.
(33:45)
Ann: The thing that I really want to happen which is a cosmic impossibility is to go back and interview 17-year-old Columba and be like "Listen, here's the deal. You might love this guy but here's what you're getting into with this family and here's what it means to associate yourself with him. Just FYI."
Aminatou: Ugh. In my dream life her and Laura are really good friends and they go on vacation together and they're like we don't want to talk about the rest of these people.
Ann: That's why she had so much jewelry. It was Laura's too.
Aminatou: [Laughs] I know, right? I'm like girl, you cannot declare that stuff. Mmm, mmm, mmm. I love a good political wife scandal like Marco Rubio's wife and how she's a speed demon. [Laughs] She just keeps getting tickets left and right.
Ann: She is a stressed-out, powerful woman though. I would be speeding too.
Aminatou: Those two are the two I can't stand. I'm like literally I could deal with a Huckabee president before I handle a Marco Rubio president. He's so bad with money. He's going to mortgage the White House and bankrupt us.
Ann: What Republican president in recent history is not so bad with money?
Aminatou: No, but this guy's the worst because he doesn't come from money, one, and then there's this one guy in Florida that keeps bankrolling him so he gets like an $80,000 check then what does he do? He buys a boat. I'm like listen, homie, you are not good at personal finance.
Ann: Then he paints on the side of it "Make America Great Again."
Aminatou: [Laughs] I'm sorry, no. Marco Rubio's the one I'm really scared of. He's going to bankrupt us. Going to be like "Sorry, I took out a second mortgage on the White House." He's so shady. He used his corporate credit card to redo the carpets at his house and then claimed he got the credit cards mixed up. I'm like come on.
Ann: P.S. why are you redoing carpets? Rip that shit out. There's got to be something better than carpet underneath it.
Aminatou: Nouveau riche people love carpet.
Ann: A high-pile carpet.
Aminatou: I'm like you guys . . . I'm like you guys, mm-mmm, that is not the way to go. But yeah, just love a good political scandal. Can't wait.
Ann: I hope we get some more good ones. I'm like I feel like only frivolous news will save me in this election season.
(36:00)
Aminatou: I mean the frivolous news is all I care about. What's that one? The terrible Wisconsin one, Scott Walker. He has this bald spot and he keeps saying that it's from when he hit his head. [Laughs] And I'm like way to call attention to it. It's literally the only thing I read about him.
Ann: I mean he's about brutally restrictive reproductive rights policies and dismantling workplace protections and lots of things you might expect.
Aminatou: Oh yeah, he ruined tenure for all the professors at Wisconsin. Fuck that guy. Oof.
Ann: Yeah. Yeah. So Scott Walker: More Than a Bald Spot.
Aminatou: [Laughs] One more year to go. Can't wait.
Ann: Ugh.
[Music]
Ann: Anyway, let's talk about something happy.
Aminatou: Drake and Serena are dating.
Ann: Emoji siren. [Siren]
Aminatou: [Laughs] Jamaican siren. I'm so happy. I'm really not invested in celebrity relationships and I really think we should give people their privacy but I have been dreaming of this since 2011 and I'm so happy.
Ann: Let me tell you this, I spent some time on Drake's Instagram feed today while I was procrastinating on one of the two deadlines I mentioned.
Aminatou: Champagne puppy?
Ann: Exactly. And so the thing is obviously I check in from time-to-time but I was like I'm just going to look at this with Serena in mind, and I will say two things: 1) lots of ping pong going on. I'm like is this sort of your . . .
Aminatou: Yeah, he was at the Rogers Cup with his mom and I was like I see you.
Ann: Yep. Yep. It's like okay. All right. Sort of common interests that aren't really common at all. But then the second thing is I feel like Drake's power has only grown as his build has grown in. That if Drake were to ever shave his bears again he would be back to being kind of sad, but he has been riding high for as long as that's been growing in and thickening.
(38:04)
Aminatou: I mean it's the beard. It's the haircut. It's how he got swole. I predicted on this podcast earlier that he got swole for Serena because I'm a fucking oracle. That's exactly what happened. But also there's this Majid Jordan song from earlier that's called My Love Song and I remember reading the lyrics to the Drake part and I was like this has got to be about Serena. He's like "You've got your trophies. I know how you like to show them off and shine them and I'm not your trophy." And I was like please, who is the only person you know who plays sports? Ugh.
Ann: I mean they could be metaphorical trophies, but yes, the point is taken.
Aminatou: No, it's Serena because he's finally out of her friend zone. They've been flirting for a long time. He had that whole beef with Common over Serena. And yeah, it's like a couple of years ago too there was this video of her twerking definitely in his condo. I'm like please, this is Drake's house.
Ann: How could you identify Drake's condo from context clues alone?
Aminatou: From other pictures of Drake's house.
Ann: Okay. Does he have high-pile carpet?
Aminatou: No, but he has a supreme mat in front of his bed. LOL.
Ann: Ah! [Laughs]
Aminatou: And also there's a video of them a couple years ago playing tennis where he was like "I can beat you but only if you play leftie." And she obviously let him win, but you know, I don't know, if I was a high-powered tennis executive and some dude . . . it's like of all of the sports that you could play and think you can compete with me, tennis? Put it in me. 100%.
Ann: [Laughs] Sure. I mean that's especially speaking to your interests. I feel Drake and Serena is maybe the very center of your Venn diagram.
Aminatou: Ann, I'm a dark-skinned lady. I've played some tennis. Drake is basically dating me.
Ann: Exactly. Done.
Aminatou: [Laughs] This is what's happening.
Ann: Shout-out to him.
(39:55)
Aminatou: But jokes aside I think there's something about dudes dating women who are more successful than them. He's been following her around the tennis circuit. He clearly is in awe of her. And I don't know, Serena deserves the best. She's our generation's most dominate athlete, like maybe ever.
Ann: I mean at which point I have to ask is Drake the best?
Aminatou: I mean Drake is the best after Serena. Drake destroyed Meek Mill.
Ann: I know, but does it take the best to destroy Meek Mill?
Aminatou: Okay, that's cold. I'm not even going to go into that because Meek Mill people will come after you. I will say that he showed his dominance.
Ann: [Laughs]
Aminatou: Also I think, I don't know, I've always been pro-Team Drake and it really annoys me that people say he's too soft, he's too light-skinned, whatever. American hood culture does not have the monopoly on hip-hop. And I think there's also this really insidious belief that to be a good rapper you have to be really close to the street, you know? And so you see this in these beefs all the time. It was the same thing with 50 Cent. They're like he's gangster so he's a better rapper. Same thing with Meek Mill and Drake. If anything that beef meant he was deeply good at the Internet and you know how I respect that as a skill.
Ann: Sure, marketing.
Aminatou: Yeah, he's so good, whereas Meek Mill, I'm like listen, if you did a little more reading you would rhyme better. How many times can you say Roley? Here's another word for watch: timepiece. Like let me just help you.
Ann: [Laughs] I have nothing to add to that.
Aminatou: Ugh, Ann, I love Drake so much. I love Serena so much. I'm so glad they found each other. I'm rooting for them.
Ann: I'm preemptively praying for you on breakup day. That's all I'm saying.
Aminatou: I know! Or if Serena doesn't win the US Open Drake is over.
Ann: Oh, come on. Come on.
Aminatou: Like don't be a distraction. I'm sorry. I don't make the rules, Ann. Don't hate the player; hate the game.
(41:52)
Ann: I mean maybe she's like huh, I won enough stuff. It's fine.
Aminatou: No, are you kidding me?
Ann: I'm kidding. I'm kidding. [Laughs]
Aminatou: No, this is number 21.
Ann: I know.
Aminatou: She's going to destroy Steffi Graf's title.
Ann: P.S., have you read the Claudia Rankine cover story about her yet?
Aminatou: Obviously.
Ann: It just came out. I have not read it yet because I was working but it's going to be what I read when I drink my second Trader Jose's Corona.
Aminatou: I will say this also: Claudia Rankine has been doing the Serena content beat just incredibly.
Ann: Oh my god, yeah, Citizen.
Aminatou: Like if you haven't read Citizen I think you should. Her book -- I think anybody who says that they care about race should read that Claudia Rankine book. But in the book she also talks about Serena's rise as a great athlete and then the public critiques of her demise and her demeanor but especially her confidence and her expressions of outrage and joy against the gaze of her awful white audience and she goes into the Indian Wells episode, some racist just sports shit. So to see her write again about Serena and it's going to be the cover of the magazine this weekend is just incredible. And she made some really good points about black excellence, you know, and how we have to work harder to prove ourselves. But the sweetness in Serena winning out is she's winning for winning's sake. She doesn't have to prove herself anymore and that's amazing.
Ann: Right, like the fact that it's a joke that she might stop because she's already got double digit amounts of these massive awards just sitting around.
Aminatou: Yeah. But you know the crazy thing is she doesn't pull in the most endorsements in tennis for marketing. I think number one is, god, who is that beautiful blonde Russian lady? Sharapova. And then the other one is some unknown Australian. I'm not even going to say her name on the podcast.
Ann: Who is also blonde.
(43:50)
Aminatou: Serena destroys them. Yeah, Serena destroys them every single time. Every time they play Sharapova they're like "Uh, here's the Sharapova rivalry." And I'm like Serena has beat her ten times in a row. I don't know that you can call that a rivalry still.
Ann: I mean women's athletic endorsements have never been about who's the best. It's always been about who is good and attractive. Yeah.
Aminatou: I know, obviously. But putting it against this curtain of Serena being so dominant it's so much more apparent and disgusting to watch.
Ann: Right. For sure.
Aminatou: What does that person always say on Twitter? Look at whiteness work. [Laughs] I'm like yes. Yeah, that Black Lives Matter activist DeRay who's the best.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: He's like look at whiteness work. And I'm like oh, that shit is real, man. So depressing. But yeah, Team Serena all the way. I'm so happy about this relationship. We'll check in. If anything happens to them I'll be devastated.
Ann: Yeah, fingers crossed. Maybe you can send them some preemptive relationship counseling.
Aminatou: Listen, I lit some sage for them the other day. It was great.
[Music]
Ann: Do you want to talk about fuck boys or are we done?
Aminatou: Let's talk about fuck boys really quickly.
Ann: Always have a minute for fuck boys, please.
Aminatou: Yeah, do you want to talk about fuck -- this was a specific request by our main man Ryan.
Ann: Oh really? Thanks Ryan.
Aminatou: RJS, friend of the podcast.
Ann: Yeah, I would say that fuck boy is just the latest in a series of terms that the white mainstream has latched onto while completely getting wrong the actual meaning.
Aminatou: Right?
(45:45)
Ann: And losing the context in the process.
Aminatou: Why do white people do this, Ann? Please speak for your people. Why do they always try to take things away from us and then ruin them? Like bae, like on fleek, and I predict that the next one will be Netflix and chill.
Ann: Listen.
Aminatou: So why do your people insist on ruining the slang?
Ann: When you're really busy oppressing all other races it's hard to have time for creativity and community-building which I think are the things that build a shared vocabulary that is possibly obscure from the mainstream. And so I think that as a general rule this is something that white people struggle with. And if you can't make it what are you going to do? Steal it. You're already used to stealing a lot of stuff, so you know? That's my short summary of how this happens. Also just white people want to seem cooler than they really are and it's like if you throw in a word that you've heard used by a rapper you enjoy in passing or something then you can feel like you have a certain amount of credibility.
Aminatou: I know. Like white people, on average, 63% less cool than black people.
Ann: Oh my god, at least.
Aminatou: Like studies. Serious studies by the Aminatou School of Studying Studies. White people, why do you do this?
Ann: Yeah, I don't know. I can't . . .
Aminatou: It's okay, Ann. Just talk to your people. Talk to your people at the next meeting.
Ann: But I mean real practical question, right? So I see my people use a term that I'm like eh, you know, maybe . . . I understand how you're using on fleek. I understand that you saw that Vine. It's cool. What is the venue for which I, in an Instagram comment, am maybe like don't say cheese dip on fleek or whatever you just captioned your photo with?
Aminatou: [Laughs] Yo, cheese dip on fleek is . . .
Ann: P.S., I've never captioned anything as on fleek.
Aminatou: I'm going to go through all your Instagram and caption it cheese dip . . .
Ann: Cheese dip on fleek. There probably is a cheese dip in my Instagram you can caption like that. No, but seriously, it's one of those things that it doesn't seem to rise to the level of in-your-face offense so I would never . . . I would maybe kind of roll my eyes and be like making this hard for other white people but I wouldn't ever go so far as to say "Why are you saying that?"
(47:55)
Aminatou: Yeah, you know? And for us it's just another micro aggression, right? It's like in the grand scheme of racist shit, using black slang and appropriating what it means, not a big deal. But it happens all the time. And it's like can we have anything? And also again it just goes to show everybody loves black culture. Nobody loves black people.
Ann: Sure. Anyway real dilemma. If you have advice for . . . I mean, I don't know, for actually being like let me have the conversation with someone else white who is always using . . .
Aminatou: Ann, you should make an MTV documentary with Jose Vargas Antonio. [Laughs] Or Jose Antonio Vargas.
Ann: Step Up White People to the Streets? I think that's maybe what we can call it.
Aminatou: Yeah. It's like yeah, every episode is one slang word. You're like here's what fuck boy actually means. Oh, fuck boy's also such a good expression. Thank you to the rapper Cam'ron for giving that to us.
Ann: Also I feel like make your own slang is maybe the appropriate response. It's just like why don't you think of a cool way of saying my crew of friends? Why don't you think of a better -- a way that you can say it?
Aminatou: White people ran out of ideas in like 1779. They just ran out of any kind of cool ideas so they kept stealing from us.
Ann: I think that is actually the headline for the article about Netflix and chill. It just says white people ran out of ideas in what did you say, 17-something? Yeah.
Aminatou: Yeah. It's like white people just ran out of scratch. Can't make anything up anymore. Sorry.
Ann: [Laughs] Ugh. It's true. I feel like maybe that could be a strong contribution from me to the wider white world. I'm like I need to start some white slang that isn't based on racial supremacy. Use your own. Just use this less interesting piece of slang as opposed to stealing from someone else.
Aminatou: Okay, Ann, we're counting on you. We're counting on you.
Ann: No pressure.
(49:55)
Aminatou: I love the idea of one person speaking for all of white culture. Thank you.
Ann: You know I am sweating profusely at this point. It's not easy.
Aminatou: [Laughs] It's not easy carrying the weight of your culture on your !!br0ken!! Good luck, boo-boo.
Ann: It's not easy. White privilege is heavy. That's what that big boulder in Atlas Shrugged is about.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: Are we out?
Aminatou: We are out, man.
Ann: Okay.
Aminatou: What am I going to do today? I'm going to do some Netflix and chill, in fact. Just sent a text message.
Ann: Great.
Aminatou: Maybe make some more of that fake salad.
Ann: Great.
Aminatou: You know, just live my best life today.
Ann: Ugh, I appreciate that. Yeah, I feel like I'm going to get stoned and read.
Aminatou: [Laughs] That's -- I mean that's our happiest place.
Ann: Yeah, the happiest. You can find us online at callyourgirlfriend.com and on Twitter at @callyrgf. Send us an email at callyrgf@gmail.com. Also iTunes, we're on iTunes. You can rate us if you like us. That'd be awesome. Shout-out to our producer and podcast witch.
Aminatou: Gina Delvac!
Ann: Gina D.
Aminatou: See you on the Internet.
Ann: See you on the Internet.