Notoriously Chill
6/5/15 - We discuss famous dudes creeping on non-famous women. Plus, contraceptive sponges and other things that get stuck up there.
Transcript below.
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CREDITS
Producer: Gina Delvac
Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn
Junior Brown - Surf Medley
Ratatat - One
Hannah Rad edit of Robyn - Call Your Girlfriend
TRANSCRIPT: NOTORIOUSLY CHILL
Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend.
Ann: A podcast for long-distance besties everywhere.
Aminatou: I'm Aminatou Sow.
Ann: And I'm Ann Friedman. On this week's agenda, famous dudes creeping on the Internet and being creeps generally, contraceptive sponges and other things that get stuck up there.
[Theme Song]
Ann: And what's going on?
Aminatou: [Laughs] I feel like we did that really well. I'm very impressed with us.
Ann: I was going to say -- I thought you were going to say that's how we opened the last episode. I was going to say "And how you doing?"
Aminatou: [Laughs] I'm doing good. It is raining and I'm really annoyed because I would rather be at the beach. Well not rather be at the beach right now than recording with you, but I would like to be at the beach later.
Ann: Where are you?
Aminatou: I am in beautiful Hawaii. It is stupid beautiful here. I don't know why we don't live here. It's kind of ridiculous.
Ann: Maybe that's a good plan for when I decide that three hours time difference away from my editors is not enough; I need to go six hours. Then it's Hawaii.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: When I'm like eh, my day pretty much ends early.
Aminatou: Listen, it's really weird. I feel very . . . I feel like very far away from everyone which is kind of the point of coming here. But yeah, it's like by the time we wake up all of life has happened.
Ann: I kind of love that. It forces you to be chill.
Aminatou: Hawaii is notoriously chill. I didn't know that chill could perturb me until I ended up here, like people are way too chill about stuff. But what is going on? I've been taking surfing lessons.
(2:00)
Ann: What? Oh my gosh, tell me. Tell me everything.
Aminatou: Here's everything: I suck really bad which I already knew. But I'm having so much fun. Also . . .
Ann: Are you popping up? Isn't that what you're supposed to do, pop up?
Aminatou: Okay, you're supposed to pop up. It's literally hours of trying to stay on the board. And then when you do it on the beach you feel so accomplished. And then you go on the water and you realize that only witches can do it. [Laughs] Like this is so ridiculous.
Ann: Sea witches.
Aminatou: Man, Ann, surfing is hard. Like I knew that obviously but now that I'm just trying to stand up and fight for my life I know how much harder it is. And then you're like fuck, I'm like chained to this board and I'm going to drown. I was never afraid of water until now.
Ann: I'm terrified of surfing. I'm so impressed right now that you're even attempting it.
Aminatou: I mean there is like nothing else to do. [Laughs]
Ann: Except for risk your life on a tiny board in the ocean.
Aminatou: Yeah, except for like kayaking. What have I been doing? Kayaking. Like a crazy shoeless hike because we were wearing flip-flops and then decided it was better to go without shoes. All the new pictures, I like cried. [Laughs] I don't know. I'm in touch with this outdoorsy side of myself that I'm not happy about.
Ann: Not happy?
Aminatou: Yeah, because it's like scary. You're just like oh, I could die on this cliff but look at how beautiful it is.
Ann: Yeah. I mean the extent of my outdoorsiness is I took like a stoner hike on Monday and I was like -- oh my god, I walked past . . . this is how non-strenuous it was. I walked past a goth teen in like a full-leather, black leather outfit out for like a scorching summer hike.
Aminatou: Whoa.
(3:55)
Ann: And I was just . . . I had a whole new respect for different types of being in nature.
Aminatou: What is the goth kid doing hiking? That's what I want to know.
Ann: I mean goths got to stay healthy too I guess, but I was like risking . . . risking everything in those leather pants.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: Like can you imagine? What happens to your legs when you hike in leather pants?
Aminatou: You probably die.
Ann: I don't know.
Aminatou: Like you come home and you would die.
Ann: I will tell you this: that teen was ascending, not descending the mountain so who knows what happened?
Aminatou: [Laughs] I don't know. It's also you know when you're away for everything and kind of everybody you know, it's like a good way to reset your embarrassment and being silly mode? Like I've fallen more times than I can count in the last couple of days. [Laughs] Like these kids -- there's literally babies in my surf class and they're better than me. I fell off a canoe yesterday because I was stoned and not paying attention.
Ann: [Laughs]
Aminatou: I hit some other dude with a paddle for a different reason on accident. Like I just . . . I'm like learning to be chill about not really being together right now.
Ann: I think that's okay. I think actually that sounds like the most therapeutic point-of-view on nature and being outdoorsy that maybe I've ever heard.
Aminatou: Yeah, just you know, just trying to be mahalo chill man. Like it's crazy out here.
Ann: [Laughs] Mahalo. I love it.
Aminatou: Mahalo chill.
[Music]
(5:50)
Ann: Well do we want to talk about un-chill things on the Internet?
Aminatou: Yes, please talk to me about un-chill things because I'm so blissed out and confused.
Ann: There have been some famous dudes acting like creeps things happening. I mean that's always happening but . . .
Aminatou: Shocker.
Ann: I know, but it has sort of in the past week been a thing that has been called out. One of the Mad Men actors who plays a creep on Mad Men . . .
Aminatou: Ann, I want to talk about this man specifically. First of all he played a creep on One Tree Hill which is a show that I hope that you have never seen.
Ann: I've only seen the credits because it used to come on after something like Gossip Girl or something else I watched.
Aminatou: Shout-out to all my college roommates, you know exactly who you are, I will not shame you, but One Tree Hill was very divisive in our household and friendship circle because I hated it so much but we had to watch it because of one particular lady. Paul Johansson was the worst dad that TV has ever seen, Dan Scott. Like the worst. He played an asshole on Mad Men. He sexually harassed Joan, but saw it coming a mile away from One Tree Hill.
Ann: Right, and then surprise he's also a sexual harasser IRL.
Aminatou: I know, right? It's like he's not a good actor; he's like actually that's him.
Ann: Right, or according to some women who work for BuzzFeed who had him in to do one of those GIF sequences that BuzzFeed does where they have actors react to various scenarios. And he said all kinds of horrible things and then of course promptly sent a statement via his lawyer denying lots of it but they caught some of it on camera. And of course it's so gross and it's so expected.
Aminatou: You know also when I was reading this account from the woman at BuzzFeed the thing that struck me so much is how completely irritating and even embarrassing it is to be harassed in your own workplace, you know?
Ann: Right.
(7:55)
Aminatou: You get dressed in the morning. You come in. You put on your boss lady face and you're going to get your shit done and somebody just completely destabilizes you. It's so demeaning.
Ann: Yeah, I mean she is just like okay, we're setting you up for this shot. We're making a little bit of small talk. I am a professional person. This is not over drinks at some networking event or anything that idiots like to call a grey zone when it comes to workplace sexual harassment. It's the worst.
Aminatou: Yeah, you know? And also just -- because he obviously knew what he was doing. He was doing it in front of other women. His publicist is there. Just the level of comfort that he feels to just make them feel this way is awful.
Ann: Yeah, and there's this line in the BuzzFeed article where this woman writes "With his hand on my back for the second time he asked 'Do you ever take people in there and make out with them?'" referring to a recording space in the office. Like eww.
Aminatou: Ugh, touching strangers, like one never okay.
Ann: Yeah. Also dudes who touch your back. Like when I read that I just pictured her hand on the small of her back in that creepy way that creepy dudes do. Ugh.
Aminatou: It's such a . . . it's a power dynamic that if you're a woman you completely understand, right? There's words and there's the actual body language.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: And you just know when you are encountering creep vibe and it's really hard to describe.
Ann: Yeah, but it's definitely trying to assert a dominance over the space that you're in. All of that stuff is power moves. It's not like I actually want to go in there and make out with you right now. It's like hey, look how I own this situation and I am a big, powerful dude.
Aminatou: My favorite thing to do is whenever people touch me inappropriately, and by inappropriately I mean at all -- like if I know you please don't touch me -- is to point it out to them and how embarrassed they immediately become.
Ann: Yeah.
(9:54)
Aminatou: And I'm like yes, this is a workplace. I don't need you giving me a hug. I don't need you putting your hand on my shoulder. It's never okay.
Ann: Never.
Aminatou: Ugh. To quote new Doug, step back, step back, you don't know me like that.
Ann: [Laughs] Correct. Elsewhere in creepy dudes on the Internet another BuzzFeed employee, although this disconnected to her work at BuzzFeed, named Gabby Dunn has been calling out and collecting stories from young women about how famous men creep on them in their direct messages, hit on them in creepy ways. How if they do actually date them how they use photos of those women and how they use their celebrity to kind of shame and demean them. And sometimes like, you know, I don't know . . . I mean the whole thing is just again totally expected and in some ways an extension of old-school groupy culture moved online where they don't have to be -- even in front of their managers or whatever they don't have to be seen as creeping on young women; they can just privately message them and meet up with them and mock them for it later which is what . . .
Aminatou: Textbook, right? Textbook.
Ann: Textbook. Yeah. So many women are submitting to her chat records and DM logs that have maybe their name blocked out or a few identifying details. The same names come up over and over. There is a Storify of a lot of these tweets that we can link to but women be suspicious of famous dudes messaging you.
Aminatou: Yeah, you know, a couple of months ago there was this big controversy in the tech world with this older technological writer man. I love that I'm so upset I don't even want to say what he does. Vivek Wadhwa.
Ann: Oh yeah.
Aminatou: Who basically was seen as harassing women. He wrote a book about women in tech and claimed to be a champion of women in technology, but surprise, surprise, when the loudest voice about women in tech is a man everybody has eye rolls.
Ann: [Laughs]
(12:00)
Aminatou: And there's this whole episode you should listen to on WNYC with this great reporter Meredith Haggerty where he just exhibits all of the clear signs of the creep vibe, right? But this episode was so explosive because so many people in tech knew him and everybody was like no, but he's like -- you know, he's a dad; he's a good person. He would never do that. And I don't remember if it was Meredith Haggerty or Emilia Greenwald, the first woman who really leveled the accusations against him who talked about this metaphor of the direct message on Twitter as the hand on the knee of Twitter.
Ann: Oh, that's so good.
Aminatou: And I completely -- I love that because it's like yes, you're absolutely right. Unsolicited DMs from men are . . . they're so awful. They're so awful, and a lot of times dudes will DM you and be like "Oh, I'm taking the conversation to a more private place," or whatever, you know? This is a way to get into your other -- get your email or get your phone number. And to them it's perfectly number, and realizing that for some of us we see it as a very predatory thing, like removing the conversation from a public place and taking it into a private place when we haven't really invited you there.
Ann: Yeah. And also just, I don't know, I think that the argument that famous men are allowed to date too doesn't hold up when you look at the tone of a lot of this stuff. The hand on the knee thing, I can't stop thinking about that because it's not . . . the language is not like hey, I'm dealing with you as an equal. It's like hey, I can have you whenever I want. What time? It's really, really offensive.
Aminatou: It's so offensive. It makes you feel so small. It makes you feel crazy also because then you start thinking about what you've done that's invited this kind of attention which a lot of times is nothing.
Ann: Right. Just like being a young woman.
(13:55)
Aminatou: Yeah. You're like I'm just breathing. And one article that I really liked also kind of in this vein is this great writer Lily Benson who got -- I'm so in love with her, she's the best -- who wrote this thing on . . . I think it was on Deadspin maybe about how to talk to girls on Twitter without coming off like a creepy random.
Ann: Mm-hmm.
Aminatou: And she just kind of breaks it down, like here are the 20 different ways that you can make us feel uncomfortable and if you want to be a good dude please adhere to some of these.
Ann: I support that, I think that's good, but I think in some ways we're talking two different groups of dudes. I think maybe there's a tiny overlap in that Venn diagram of well-meaning men who come across as threatening and creepy but most of the time I think that there's like -- these are actively predatory or semi-predatory men who are like here's a woman who is really attractive and half my age and I'm going to use my fame as leverage to get her to do what I want.
Aminatou: No, yeah, agreed. I think that they are two separate things. I think the overlap is there. The thing I think for me that is so telling with the famous guys like the guy that Gabby is calling out is how the fame is the leverage but it's also the shield, you know? Like they would never . . . once they get caught it's always the same script: "Oh, I was just trying to help you" or "Please, I'm too famous to be dealing with you" or "You are trying to encroach on all this territory." And I find it really interesting that all of these women now have receipts basically, right?
Ann: Yes, totally.
Aminatou: But it's like what are we going to do with the receipts? Because we have a really short collective memory.
Ann: Yeah, and I think too that if you don't recognize the power that you have as someone who is famous or more professionally accomplished or any number of things that amount to power in this society then that is also a red flag. Like if you can't acknowledge that and sort of say maybe I shouldn't hit on way younger women this way, even if I'm only doing it this one time, you know?
(16:03)
Aminatou: Right? Maybe if I'm James Franco I shouldn't be Instagram DMing with a 17-year-old.
Ann: Right, exactly. And not because I'm afraid I'm going to get caught but if you're not genuinely a creep doesn't this occur to you that it could be a problem? I don't know.
Aminatou: I don't understand, and maybe it's a function of not having too much power, but I don't understand why powerful people wouldn't want to be on the same level as other powerful people as opposed to exploiting people who can't really do anything for them. Maybe that was a really crass way of putting that, but you know . . .
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: I don't see what the point is of getting your ego stroked by -- well, I guess the point is that you're a creep.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: It's so -- ugh, so annoying.
Ann: Just a shout-out to the women who are calling this out and shout-out to women who have been personally victimized by dudes like this. We support you. Yeah, I don't really know what else to say. Do you have any other . . .
Aminatou: Burn in a fire, all those guys.
Ann: Yes, that's a great message. All Internet creepy dudes and IRL creepy dudes.
Aminatou: I know. It's like you're saying that then now all of the creeps that I know are just flashing . . .
Ann: Before your eyes?
Aminatou: Flashing before my eyes.
Ann: Everyone knows them. Like everyone's got . . .
Aminatou: Everybody knows them, you know what I mean? Like everybody's been in that situation. I certainly have.
Ann: Right. Well and the thing too that always strikes me about how much shame surrounds this and how women think that they are alone and stupid in letting themselves -- I'm doing air quotes, you can't see it -- letting themselves . . .
Aminatou: Ann, trust, I saw them. [Laughs]
Ann: . . . be targeted by men like this when in fact if they only knew how many other women were in the same position, perhaps targeted by the same man, maybe those feelings would be a little different. So I very much applaud all the women who are tweeting screenshots -- tweeting the receipts if you will of the conversations and coming forward about it because . . .
Aminatou: Ugh.
[Ads]
(19:28)
Ann: Yes.
Aminatou: Like I was telling you completely separately about how I've been watching the Anita Hill hearings. Different scenario, different context, but a lot of it still applies and how the hearing went from being about what she had experienced with Clarence Thomas and quickly became an attack on her own character. Like she was the person that they were trying to confirm for the Supreme Court nominee.
Ann: Right.
(19:52)
Aminatou: Which is insane. It was so -- and I was watching this and honestly I could not believe the line of questioning, and here's this woman, she's like a law professor. She is so smart. In a completely different context she would've been the one that they were trying to confirm. It completely blew her career up and obviously she's reinvented and done these amazing things for herself but not everybody is that resilient.
But just this persistence that a lot of people have that women level out these kinds of accusations to get ahead. It's always like tell me which woman has ever gotten ahead from leveling harassment or assault or any kind of those claims? But it's still -- that still persists.
Ann: And also the personal sacrifice she made not just in the moment to show up at those hearings and share her truth the way that she did but also the fact that forevermore she's not Anita Hill, noted legal scholar; she's like Anita Hill, a name we all associate with a totally shameful sexual harassment moment in our nation's history. You know what I mean? She's shorthand for that now. It's not fair.
Aminatou: It's not fair at all, and Ann, honestly, I wouldn't say I knew who Anita Hill was. I watched the documentary. It's on Netflix. You should watch it. All of that stuff. But watching the hearings in their entirety I don't know that I would've been able to do that. And her family is there and they're asking her all these absurd sexual questions. They're questioning her motives. They're getting students to talk about her pubic hair. Just madness. Actual madness. You know, the result of that kind of targeting honestly is it intimidates other women.
Ann: I mean, yeah.
Aminatou: It's like imagine -- you know, it's like Anita Hill, she could do it. I don't know that I could've done it, God knows. And the thing that I didn't know until I watched the documentary last year is she actually didn't want her disclosures to be public. She sent them privately and she got exposed.
Ann: Whoa.
(22:05)
Aminatou: It's like the FBI came around because she had worked with Clarence Thomas before. Also the most absurd part of all of this which I always forget is it was at the Equal Employment Office.
Ann: Wow.
Aminatou: Which is just like -- yes, that's like a lull for another day. She had done this really quietly. She was like here's what I know. Sent her letter in, never wanted her name in, whatever. And then the whole thing became a witch hunt.
Ann: Ugh.
Aminatou: Ugh.
Ann: Just like ugh. [Laughs]
Aminatou: This is the kind of stuff for me that really bums me out is you want everybody to do the right thing and to disclose and be proud and not have shame. It's like if I were giving advice to somebody that I loved I would obviously tell them to stand up for themselves but I also don't see what the upside of it is, you know? Like publicly.
Ann: Right, on a personal . . .
Aminatou: Yeah, and that really bums me out.
Ann: Yeah, you basically have to be a martyr for the greater cause of womanity if you decide to go forward and be public or you have to accept that as a possibility I guess and that is horrible.
Aminatou: I know. I guess maybe if more of us martyr ourselves it will get better faster.
Ann: Right. But yeah, I don't see how you can get upset with any woman for not coming forward individually if that's -- as long as that's the case.
Aminatou: Oh my god. Ugh. When is it going to change?
Ann: Uh . ..
Aminatou: Make it change, Ann.
Ann: Cue me taking off my headphones and exiting my closet and just crying in the corner.
Aminatou: [Laughs] I thought you were going to put on one of your capes, just like -- and just like storm out.
(23:52)
Ann: I can't go crying in the closet because I'm already in my closet. I have to go somewhere else and cry. [Laughs]
Aminatou: Oh my god, okay.
Ann: Let's talk about something else.
Aminatou: Ladies, it's hard out there. Good luck.
Ann: We support you.
Aminatou: Yes. It's like goodnight and be good to each other.
[Music]
Ann: Do you want to read one of these other questions?
Aminatou: Man, okay, let's do an easy question.
Ann: Great.
Aminatou: Because some of these are a bummer. Okay, I don't know if this is a question but this is amazing. [Laughs] Sophie from San Diego -- hi Sophie -- almost 30 . . .
Ann: Wait, sorry, do we do names? We haven't done names in the past, or should we?
Aminatou: Oh, Sophie from San Diego wanted to be referred to as Sophie from San Diego.
Ann: Oh, okay. My bad. Sorry to cut in.
Aminatou: [Laughs] "Almost 30 years ago a contraceptive Today Sponge got stuck in my vagina and I had to ask my college boyfriend of six months to roll up his sleeve and go fishing for it. He broke up with me shortly thereafter never citing this incident as the tipping point but 30 years later I could see how that might've been a deal-breaker for a 22-year-old man child. Not sure if any of your listeners or anyone for that matter use the Today Sponge. Also not sure if you can mention the name of this product for fear of any legal implications for talking about the product's potential for getting stuck up there." I think we can talk about it. I'll consult CYG legal. It's a . . .
Ann: If women's magazines can do "It happened to me" I think we can do this.
(25:50)
Aminatou: Right? It happened -- it happened to me. [Laughs] "Just wondering if I'm the only one. Are there other things we intentionally place up our vaginas that get stuck other than tampons all in the name of preventing a crimson flow onto our panties or menstrual cycle from disappearing for nine months? I'm learning a lot from your podcast." Sophie, I'm learning a lot from you. First of all I did not know what the Today Sponge was and I looked it up. You can buy it over-the-counter on Amazon. That's how I know the government does not take it seriously because they're not trying to get seven doctors to write you a prescription.
Ann: The thing about the Today Sponge is it was already a punchline in the '90s because there was an episode of Seinfeld -- I think it was Seinfeld, I was not the biggest Seinfeld watcher. Anyways, where the question . . .
Aminatou: [Laughs] I've seen four Seinfeld episodes. It's okay.
Ann: Right, where the question is is he sponge-worthy because they had been discontinued and I believe Elaine had a stockpile of Today Sponges where she's like is this worth it sex-wise?
Aminatou: So I assume that you have to take it out when you're having sex?
Ann: No, I don't think you do. I think the opposite is -- you put it in to have sex.
Aminatou: I think that episode of Orange is the New Black when they're talking about where the clitoris is, I'm just like where do you put the sponge?
Ann: Yeah, so definitely . . . definitely it was Seinfeld. I just Googled this. And definitely you put it in before you have sex, a la a diaphragm or something.
Aminatou: Oh! This is even more nefarious than I thought.
Ann: The sponge is like soaking in spermicide. It's basically like a porous trap to kill all the sperm.
Aminatou: This is insane. [Laughs] This is insane. Man. Vaginas are so hardcore. I don't even know what to say. You know, I have never had a tampon stuck in my vagina but I thought I did and it prompted me to go to the doctor because I thought I was going crazy.
(28:00)
Ann: Many years ago I was having a brief fling with the Nuvaring. It did not last long.
Aminatou: Oh my god.
Ann: And I would not say it was stuck stuck but I definitely had an extended period of time in the bathroom trying to remove it. I don't really know what happened but it was up there weird and yeah. That ended my flirtation with that particular contraceptive method.
Aminatou: [Laughs] I'll tell you what ended my flirtation with the Nuvaring was finding it next to me every time I woke up or was watching TV. I was like this . . .
Ann: Like it just simultaneously ejected? Or sorry, spontaneously ejected from your . . .
Aminatou: I don't know. Maybe I have wide-set hips or something, like it just would not stay which if you want to use your TMI imagination take that as far as you can. [Laughs] It just never stayed in place and I was like I'm done. Nuvaring is as far as I've played with inserting birth control. But yeah, when I thought I had that tampon stuck I thought I was going crazy, like I looked for it everywhere. I even called -- I called Phoebe who's . . . if you think you have a tampon stuck in your vagina, who are you going to call? Phoebe obviously.
Ann: A very dexterous woman who is good under pressure.
Aminatou: Seriously, I called Phoebe because I was freaking out and I didn't know what to do and she was like "Calm down. Have a whiskey. Let's look for it. Do you want me to look for it? Do you want me to come over and look for it? What's going on?" And I'm just like "Phoebe, I just don't know where it could be." And she's like "Well if it's not in there, it's not in there." Basically yelled at me. And I was like man, she's right. Like it did not travel up my throat. I just did not . . . you know, it obviously fell in the toilet at some point.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: When there's too much blood you can't tell.
(29:55)
Ann: This is what happens when you can't trust your own cervix. The cervix is real. That is a real barrier.
Aminatou: No, it's so crazy. And I went to the doctor and this is the doctor that basically saved my life because it turned out that I had all these other fucked-up issues. But I went to her because I thought I had a tampon stuck in there.
Ann: So the phantom tampon actually really helped you?
Aminatou: The phantom tampon is what saved my life for real.
Ann: Phantom tampon saved my life will be a great chapter in the graphic novel of your life.
Aminatou: Ann, I really thought I was going crazy. [Laughs] I'm just like where can it be?
Ann: Where can it be?
Aminatou: If anybody else uses the Today Sponge please email us. I'm dying to know who else uses this.
Ann: Like currently uses the Today Sponge, not like 30 years ago, but today. Today Today Sponge.
Aminatou: Also I love the bit about the boyfriend. [Laughs]
Ann: Yes.
Aminatou: I was so enthralled by Today Sponge I glossed over the fact that somebody else tried to go fish for it. Yeah, that guy's probably still traumatized.
Ann: I mean great. Just great.
Aminatou: I don't know, man. I think everybody has boundaries and we have to respect them.
Ann: I think that's true but I also think presumably she was having sex with this boyfriend and if you're not willing to roll up your sleeves and go looking for a lost contraceptive in the vagina of the person you're sleeping with maybe you should not . . .
Aminatou: Ann, that is a bold claim. [Laughs]
Ann: Of course if the owner of the vagina wants you up there, of course. But if you're called to action I think you have to respond.
Aminatou: But Ann, what if they're not into it?
Ann: I mean . . .
Aminatou: Not for blood reasons but legitimately -- I would not go fishing for anything up somebody's peen if I had to.
Ann: I mean it's a slightly different anatomical thing.
Aminatou: It's not. It's really not. Bodies are . . . some people . . .
(31:52)
Ann: If someone was like in order to continue sleeping with this peen you have to swab it in this crisis situation or something I would be like okay.
Aminatou: Man, I really would have to love you.
Ann: [Laughs] She said boyfriend. She didn't say a guy I slept with once. I assume they were in a relationship.
Aminatou: I know, but what if he like . . . I don't know. Listen, she says he was a 22-year-old man child and I believe her but also . . . [Laughter] Oh my god, you snorted. Is that a first?
Ann: Oh no, I kicked the bottom of my mic stand.
Aminatou: Oh, I thought you snorted. I got so excited.
Ann: Anyway.
Aminatou: Ann, this is serious.
Ann: I love it.
Aminatou: Imagine if, I don't know, you had to go . . . I don't even know what the corollary . . . if you had to dig up somebody's prostate would you do it? That you had been dating.
Ann: I mean this is getting very personal very fast.
Aminatou: Who is 22.
Ann: Very personal very fast. I'm just saying especially when you are -- for a heterosexual couple if you're the woman in that couple and you're the one who's dealing with putting a spermicide-soaked sponge up your vagina and you're in a panic mode about it the least your partner who would otherwise be impregnating you if you hadn't taken this action, if he's unwilling to exist, I think that is kind of a fireable defense. Access denied.
Aminatou: The jury's hung on this one. Okay. [Laughs] Oh my god.
Ann: I mean not someone you slept with once but a partner or a boyfriend, I think it's fair. Or yeah, anyway.
Aminatou: Anyway, shout-out Phoebe. Thank you for being a real friend. Always having good advice.
Ann: Travel down the road and back again.
Aminatou: [Laughs] Everybody needs a Phoebe in their lives.
Ann: Truth.
Aminatou: I think that's it, man.
Ann: Yeah, that sounds good. There's a disclosure that we've been meaning to make in every episode. Actually we haven't been meaning to make; we forgot because we're the worst. But there is a wonderful woman whose birthday is this week. She turns 29. What, what?
Aminatou: Happy birthday!
Ann: Happy birthday! Gina Delvac, our podcast witch who ably produces and edits every episode of this podcast. We would be nothing without her. We love her. We thank her. She is going to dominate 29 and all of her 30s. While she's doing that you can find us so many places on the Internet: callyourgirlfriend.com, on Twitter at @callyrgf, in our Gmail inbox at callyrgf@gmail.com, and on iTunes where you can rate us and leave us a review if you're feeling charitable.
Aminatou: Produced by Gina Delvac. [Laughter]
Ann: Like TV announcer . . .
Aminatou: I want to get Autotune so I can do it in Autotune.
Ann: That would be so good.
Aminatou: Produced by Gina Delvac, like in T-Pain voice.
Ann: Yes, okay, goals. [Laughter]
Aminatou: See you on the Internet.
Ann: See you on the Internet.
[Music]