Episode 60: Lady Villain

Published August 26, 2016.

Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend. [Cheering]

Stephanie: A podcast for long-distances besties everywhere and here in downtown Los Angeles. [Cheering]

Aminatou: I'm Aminatou Sow.

Stephanie: And I'm Ann Friedman.

Aminatou: On tonight's agenda we have an Olympics update, a quick Ivanka check-in, and this new thing we're trying out called how to divorce a billionaire.

Stephanie: We also have some incredible special guests. We have Stephanie Beatriz from Brooklyn Nine-Nine. [Cheering] I know, and she's here with her bestie Courtney Kocak which I love a bestie pair. Like this is our optimal situation.

Aminatou: True.

Stephanie: So yeah, okay. That was it. I'm going to take a drink now. We did the intro.

[Theme Song]

Aminatou: This is a lot of people here.

Stephanie: We can't do this when we see you at home normally, like recorded, so thanks for being patient with us and thanks for showing up in person.

Aminatou: Yeah.

Stephanie: Okay, let's talk about the news.

Aminatou: What's going on in the news?

Stephanie: The Olympics.

Aminatou: Oh, I've been watching so much Olympics. Favorite sport that I did not know was a sport that I discovered is synchronized swimming duets. [Cheering] Intense. So good. I literally discovered it two minutes ago. The first team I saw was the US women. Like the swimsuits are out of control but I just didn't know what the standards were. I'm like they're not breathing for 15 minutes but is the technique good? I had no idea and soon found out. It's like America, the team, we're not very good. But the Russian girls? 10 out of 10. So good.


Stephanie: Which are the ones that did . . . so was it like a Vine or a GIF?

Aminatou: It was all of the above.

Stephanie: Okay, thank you, of the two synchronized swimming teammates.

Aminatou: Yes, it was the US girls.

Stephanie: Okay, so I don't know what they were like in the pool but out of the pool their walk to the pool was admirable and we could learn a lot.

Aminatou: Yeah, it's like in formation. It's like you dance all the way then you dive -- it's intense. So anyway, find some YouTubes. What else are we watching? We're really into Simone who is so good.

Stephanie: All the Simones. All the Simones.

Aminatou: Simone. We're really Swimone who is the first black woman to win an individual gold medal for swimming which is huge! [Cheering]

Stephanie: And her teammate. Her teammate Lia Neal too.

Aminatou: I know, you know? And I really want to take a moment and like . . . black excellence at the Olympics is like . . . [Cheering] Right? It's like we figured out swimming. The entire fencing team is black. I saw on the Internet there's a girl who was a speed skater who's black. I'm like once we figure out the Winter Olympics it's over. [Laughter]

Stephanie: Over.

Aminatou: White athleticism, RIP. So that's good. Who else did we like at the Olympics? We really liked Michelle Carter, the amazing chocolate champion.

Stephanie: Oh yeah.

Aminatou: Such a babe.

Stephanie: Amina told me she is also a makeup artist?

Aminatou: 100% makeup artist. That's why she looks so babe every time she goes out because she knows what she's doing. She's the best. The thing that's funny about her is that in 2012 she didn't medal for anything but all of these people above her have been getting caught for doping scandals so by the end of the year she'll probably be a gold medalist from the 2012 Olympics.

Stephanie: She's like the last woman standing, yeah.

Aminatou: It's the best. There's a great New Yorker profile about her. You should read it.

Stephanie: Ugh.

Aminatou: What else is going on in the Olympics?

Stephanie: In other heartwarming news, as an overarching trend, we have been keeping track of women athletes who are awesomely supportive of one another.

Aminatou: Yeah.

Stephanie: Yeah, so there were some runners who won . . . [Cheering] One woman from America, one woman from New Zealand, and they were 3,000 meters deep into a 5,000 meter race.

Aminatou: A lot.


Stephanie: A lot of meters, and the US runner kind of clipped the heel of the runner from New Zealand and they both fell down and it was horrific. It was the sort of thing when you watched . . . I mean mostly hurdlers falling is the worst, but this was also really bad. And then they stopped to help each other and then the New Zealand woman realized the American's knee was twisted and she couldn't really run. There was a whole "You go on. You go on."

Aminatou: So good.

Stephanie: And bottom line, they both finished. They both made it across the finish line. They both qualified to run in the final. And when the runner from New Zealand was interviewed she was like "This is the thing I am going to take away from the Olympics. She is my story."

Aminatou: Can I say something though?

Stephanie: Please.

Aminatou: So you know how sometimes at work or in life, you know, people are competitive with you? Those people are dummies. These women actually are in real competition. Your workplace . . .

Stephanie: For three medals. It's so literal.

Aminatou: At your workplace that you work for for money and do dumb shit, that's not a competition. It's like be nice to those people. These ladies are doing it.

Stephanie: Right. So we talk a lot about shine theory which is this idea that you're better off joining forces with another woman who maybe others are telling you should be your competitor and both working hard to be your best, and this was just so literal. I mean it wasn't just these woman . . . they're like the US women's swim team is also a great example of this.

Aminatou: Oh yeah. Those guys are like homies. The gymnastics ladies also.

Stephanie: Staying up late to be like "I just wanted to hug you after your medal." Stuff like that. And I know they're technically on the same team but that's another example where they're competing for the same number of prizes. And they're also just so vocal about it and so open about it. I love the athlete social media. It's like positive reinforcement.


Aminatou: I know, it's pretty lit. It's so great.

Stephanie: It's so good. Okay, what else are we tracking?

Aminatou: So let me set the stage for you. There were at least a dozen proposals at the Olympics.

Stephanie: Okay, there were like five.

Aminatou: I don't know, I saw a CBS article and it was like seven at least so we're going to go dozen. Exaggeration. You know, because you don't know the people who didn't do it on camera, right? I'm just like hmm, you got proposed to at the Olympic Village McDonald's? Like nobody's . . .

Stephanie: By a nobody, not another athlete? Someone's watching, yeah.

Aminatou: But look at this lady, right? She's like a Chinese diver. She has won a medal, right? Like big moment in her life.

Stephanie: She's on the podium.

Aminatou: She's on the podium, and then her boyfriend who has not won a medal, one . . . [Laughter]

Stephanie: No, no medals.

Aminatou: Decides to steal her moment and propose to her. This is wrong for many reasons. Number one, public proposals are garbage.

Stephanie: It's a trap. It's a trap!

Aminatou: It's a trap. Don't do it. [Cheering] Garbage. One, you implicate innocent bystanders like us. I don't want to be a part of this.

Stephanie: I don't want to feel obligated to aww. Like I don't know you.

Aminatou: I don't want to be a part of this too. Can you say no? I don't know. It's embarrassing, right? You have to do it. And now when they get divorced this is -- the best day of her athletic life is going to be tied into this doofus proposing to her. Don't do this. Don't do this. Don't do this.

Stephanie: She's like happy crying but I know the truth. [Laughs]

Aminatou: It's like let her have her moment. Yeah, don't propose on birthdays, don't propose on other anniversaries, and don't propose at Olympic ceremonies.

Stephanie: Don't do it.

Aminatou: Ugh, okay, moving on from . . . I'm so annoyed by this.

Stephanie: I know, I know. We have to move on because -- yeah. I mean also great moment for you. I know aww, love is great. But look at the big picture.

Aminatou: Yeah, look at the . . . no.


Stephanie: Okay. In other news this week in menstruation the Olympics provided us with . . . [Cheering] I know. I know. With a Chinese swimmer who basically was like "Yeah, I was really tired and didn't do my best because I was on my period." It must be really hard to compete at a top level when you are bleeding and cramping and feeling terrible. So yeah, here she is saying "I'm feeling pretty weak and tired."

Aminatou: This is what happens when you go to your place of work on your period. This happens.

Stephanie: Yes.

Aminatou: Very accurate. You're not . . . this is, you know? But I love that the reason she had to answer that is because these asshole announcers are like "Why didn't you win today?" And I'm like you don't know how to do this? And she's like "Well, I was really tired."

Stephanie: Like if you really want to know, yeah.

Aminatou: And it's been good. We've also heard from a lot of men in our lives about how this has been a groundbreaking moment for them. They're like oh, periods, do you have that also? Like that Chinese swimmer? Yes. [Laughter]

Stephanie: Does it also prevent you from doing your best work? The answer is yes.

Aminatou: Yeah. You know, like three days in the month, some of us ten days. We know. This is a problem.

Stephanie: Which I feel like is a narrative we've only recently been able to fully claim because there was a whole history of sort of being like "Our periods won't stop us from doing things." And we've advanced enough as a society to be like they won't stop us from doing things like competing in professional sports or having a good job. But yeah, you don't have your best day. 

Aminatou: Okay, that's the Olympics.

Stephanie: So the other update that I think is election-relevant . . .

Aminatou: Ugh.

Stephanie: Is the backlash against Ivanka is finally starting to heat up. [Applause] Which is -- I know, right? Even if we're the only two.

Aminatou: I'm happy. I'm happy.

Stephanie: Which is very excited. I felt like for a while maybe the sort of like workplace empowering feminism would help her skate by but recently there's been all of the stuff about the manufacturers of her clothing not getting maternity leave after she was like "Yeah, my employees get it." And what else? What else is happening?


Aminatou: She's writing the new Lean In and she's setting herself up to be a feminist powerhouse but then she's also doubled down on her dad which is not okay.

Stephanie: Oh yeah, she's like harassment? No big deal.

Aminatou: But really relevant to us there was an ear cuff incident.

Stephanie: Oh my god.

Aminatou: And I feel like Ann, you should explain the ear cuff incident to everyone.

Stephanie: So you were actually very important to my understanding of this because I did not know that the ear cuff was back. Like this is the first time . . . and I feel personally ashamed and can admit it to all of you here that it was Ivanka that had to clue me in on the fact that the ear cuff is truly back. Anyway, so what happened was she ordered an ear cuff from a jewelry manufacturer called Lady Grey. [Cheer]

Aminatou: We've got a fan!

Stephanie: We've got a fan. And they did fulfill the order, but they posted this public note on their Instagram that was basically like "Cool story. We took all the proceeds and donated to immigration rights groups, Hillary's campaign, gun control. Thanks for your business." [Cheering] And I don't know, there was something about this where I really felt the peak Ivanka backlash. Like the woman can't buy an ear cuff now without getting called out. It's great.

Aminatou: Okay, I have a question for you since we talked about Ivanka and the backlash: how do you feel about Melania?

Stephanie: It's hard for me to root for Melania.

Aminatou: But do you think that she's in on the sabotage? That's why she -- you know, she plagiarized her own speech because she's trying to get out and she's . . .

Stephanie: Okay, this is a really interesting theory. Everything I feel about Melania comes from the fictional piece that Chimamanda wrote in the New York Times Book Review.

Aminatou: Ten out of ten.

Stephanie: Look it up. Ten out of ten. All real reporting about Melania is kind of not that interesting, but the fanfic interpretation is 100. And it's basically she is like lonely and confused and looking for a way out. So that's a plausible theory.

Aminatou: That or they're just an entire family of grifters, all of them.

Stephanie: Stealing.

Aminatou: Except for Barron.

Stephanie: Okay.


Aminatou: Okay. Moving on we're going to talk about another probably evil -- we don't know yet. We know she's probably evil. She's also mixed up with Ivanka's dad. Her name is Wendi Deng. [Cheering] Wow, so many Wendi fans. Who knew?

Stephanie: Deep Wendi fans.

Aminatou: So we've been thinking about starting a segment on Call Your Girlfriend called "What's Wendi Up To?"

Stephanie: WWUT.

Aminatou: The other working title for this was a reality TV show just called How to Divorce a Billionaire. So here's Wendi's story: before she was this fabulous billionaire wife she married this man, evil Rupert Murdoch.  If you don't know him, Google him. We're not going to talk about him.

Stephanie: See, the thread from Melania to Wendi, clear. Clear.

Aminatou: I know, these ladies. So she marries this evil potato and then . . .

Stephanie: The skin sack.

Aminatou: They were married for like ten years but she's really loyal, right? Because when you marry somebody like this who has a lot of money you've got to do a lot of dirty work. So she's like on this they have kids. The kids are super cute. Love the kids. And then Rupert Murdoch gets caught in this like . . . you know, this is the inquest for when Rupert Murdoch was caught in the wiretapping situation.

Stephanie: Phone hacking.

Aminatou: Phone hacking. British people invented phone hacking. We just took all of their bad behavior here. So she's like standing behind her husband, right? She's so mad. And she's like "I can't believe they're making us do this. We have so much money."

Stephanie: "Can't believe we have to go to court. We should be on a yacht."

Aminatou: And then a serious incident happens, right? Somebody tries to pie her husband and she's not having it so she literally fights the person off.

Stephanie: Let's go to the tape.

Aminatou: Look at this shit. [Laughter]

Stephanie: You see her in the pink? The leap?

Aminatou: Would you do that for Rupert Murdoch? I would not do that for Rupert Murdoch. But here's the thing: she does this thing for him. The Internet celebrates her. We're all on the same page. And then they divorce. And it's kind of unclear why the divorce happens, and the Internet has many theories. One of them is that British warmonger Tony Blair is who breaks them up. Husband of Cherie Blair of the Cherie Blair Foundation.


Stephanie: Cheri Blair's husband.

Aminatou: She's the relevant Blair in this scenario. But yeah, it's really unclear. It's like these two, did something happen? We don't know but the pictures are fabulous.

Stephanie: There was a rumored weekend tryst.

Aminatou: Yeah, and then really awful mash notes on Vanity fair. Look it up yourself.

Stephanie: Oh god, yeah.

Aminatou: But also, you know, I'm just like all these rich people, is this what you do all the time is go to these terrible dinners with awful people? Probably.

Stephanie: But now she's just on a problematic man streak.

Aminatou: She is. So this is her problematic man streak, right? This is all alleged man streak.

Stephanie: Alleged.

Aminatou: One, Sergey Brin, co-founder of a small company called Google -- they make paper products -- but it's really unclear what happened here. They hang. They're friends.

Stephanie: Sure.

Aminatou: Next person is this also awful person, Eric Schmidt, also Googler. Probably something did happen here according to Vanity Fair.

Stephanie: Daily Mail, etc.

Aminatou: Single-source reporting. I only tell the truth on this podcast. [Laughter] We don't know. But you know I'm just like why? You're so beautiful. You're so smart. Why? Why all these people?

Stephanie: But she also has this hottie.

Aminatou: This hottie. We don't remember his name but he's very hot. He's like super-hot. This is the person she should be with. They go to fashion week together.

Stephanie: He's got the jawline.

Aminatou: Yeah, but he probably doesn't make as much money as those awful other people that she's into, so that's Wendi's drama. Then who else? Which brings us to Wendi's current romance. [Moaning] With emperor of Russia, Vladimir Putin.

Stephanie: Ugh.

Aminatou: Ann, tell us your feelings about Vlad.

Stephanie: Listen, I mean the Google Image Search for shirtless Putin -- I can't even say it, I'm so flustered -- is really important. I mean I feel like . . .

Aminatou: Do you think he's hot?

Stephanie: Well I think it's important on a gay theory level. Like I think it's sort of like, you know, masculinity studies. I don't know. I don't mean to get too academic about it because there's also like shirtless horse whispering, and also what is that horse decked out in? Like not to go back to the ear cuff but is this also a thing that's happening?

Aminatou: It's very homoerotic. I'm really into it. I'm really into it.

Stephanie: Very erotic, right? So maybe she did the same Google Image Search is what I'm saying. And then we also have the descending into the water like a Bond villain.


Aminatou: It's too good.

Stephanie: I look at this photo when I'm having a bad day sometimes. [Laughter] Canoodling with dolphins? This is not Photoshopped.

Aminatou: Yeah, this is not Photoshopped.

Stephanie: This is real. Okay, so . . .

Aminatou: So it's like Wendi is maybe dating this guy, right? And the problem with this guy is he's kind of meddling into our election right now and we can't figure out how he's getting all the information. It's like he's probably hacking but it's probably not hacking. It's probably Wendi. Because guess what? Wendi is BFF with . . . 

Stephanie: Ivanka!

Aminatou: Ivanka! Whole thing fits together. Ivanka and Wendi, besties. This is in Croatia or one of those cheaper European countries, who knows. And they hang all the time. This is terrifying to me. I want to know what the story is with these two. So, you know, this is Ivanka's Instagram. She's just like "Russian hacking scandal. Check me out and Wendi." Smoking gun.

Stephanie: But how good does Wendi look here?

Aminatou: Wendi looks amazing. You know, part of the reason too I think that we are generally into Wendi is it's really exciting when your anti-heroes are not just white men. I love this.

Stephanie: I love a lady villain, you know?

Aminatou: A lady villain, and then you know, an ethnic lady villain? I'm down for this. So we'll check back in with Wendi soon.

Stephanie: So yeah, thanks for helping us pilot What's Up With Wendi. What's Wendi Up To?

Aminatou: What's Wendi Up To.

Stephanie: WWUT?

Aminatou: Right, WWUT. What's Wendi Up To?

Stephanie: Thank you.

Aminatou: That's so perfect.

Stephanie: That's it. That's it. That's the news. [Cheering]

[Music and Ads]


Aminatou: I'm very excited about our next segment also. Stephanie Beatriz is an actor who plays tough cop Rosa Diaz on Fox's Brooklyn Nine-Nine which will be returning with new episodes in September. She also just shot the gripping feature film In the Light of the Moon in New York while on hiatus from the show. Her bestie, Courtney Kocak, is a writer for Amazon's animated comedy Danger and Eggs and the co-creator of Writing F Yeah, an Instagram account come Etsy story dedicated to funny misquotes of famous authors.

Stephanie: They are best friends as well as co-hosts of Reality Bytes, a new talk show about sex and dating in the digital age coming to both YouTube and iTunes in September. And they are with us tonight! Welcome Stephanie Beatriz and Courtney Kocak.

Aminatou: Woo! [Cheering] Hi.

Stephanie: Hi.

Aminatou: How do you two know each other?

Stephanie: How did we meet, Courtney?

Courtney: We met through a mutual friend. Steph had just moved to town.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Courtney: She'd been at Oregon Shakespeare Festival.

Stephanie: Yes, doing some Shakespeare. Shout out Shakespeare. Yeah, I needed some friends. I was very lonely. I was very afraid of being there.

Courtney: So she spotted a mutual friend on the street. We went to the same college.

Stephanie: Literally spotted her on the street then hit her up on Facebook and was like "What are you doing? Can I be your friend? Can I hang out?" And then Courtney . . . 

Courtney: We met at your pyramid scheme party! Do you remember this?

Stephanie: Oh my god!

Stephanie: Back up. Back up.

Stephanie: I forgot about this!

Aminatou: What is a pyramid scheme party?

Courtney: Because here's the problem, I'm so nice, it's like Arbon or something? Basically like Tupperware except like you go to the party and she's like "Hey, but also you can really change your life and be your own boss if you work for me with Arbon."

Aminatou: What? You hosted one of these?

Stephanie: Yeah, I mean I wasn't selling the product.

Stephanie: She needed friends!

Aminatou: Fair. Okay.

Stephanie: I had a whole spread. I throw a good party.

Courtney: It was a great party, but this girl literally showed us an image of a pyramid.

Stephanie: Legitimately a pyramid. Legitimately.

Courtney: For your presentation. I was like wait a second.

Stephanie: I was like what? My life choices are leading me down the wrong path right now. Except it led me to you.

Courtney: Yeah.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Courtney: And then it was fast and furious after that. We went to Sedona, super romantic.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Stephanie: Ooh.

Courtney: Then it was just like on.

Aminatou: Are you still friends with the mutual friend?

Courtney: She moved away.

Aminatou: Oh. [Laughter]

Courtney: She left us.

Stephanie: Cold. Cold-blooded.

Stephanie: Okay, well it's so fun that you now have this talk show.

Courtney: Yes.

Stephanie: You broadcast also a video thing? Tell us about this.

Courtney: It started as a podcast.

Stephanie: Mostly it's dating.

Courtney: Mostly it's dating.

Stephanie: Let's be real. It's dating.

Aminatou: How's dating going?

Stephanie: It's awful.

Courtney: Oh my god, so good.

Stephanie: It's really bad. I just got out of an eight-year relationship.

Aminatou: Oh! How is that going?

Stephanie: Yes. I mean it's okay . . . [Laughter] It's okay. Like it's . . .

Courtney: You front, girl. You keep fronting.

Stephanie: It was necessary but I think it's very difficult to leave something that you've been in for a long time. I mean I'm sure many of you in the audience are feeling that right now, like do I stay? Is this okay? Am I happy? That's the real question is am I happy with what's going on? And I think a lot of times you don't really realize that you've even sluffed off parts of yourself to sort of fit into a mold of somebody else.

Aminatou: That's crazy.

Stephanie: Dark humor.

Stephanie: What someone else wants, you know? Yeah. And it is sort of very jarring to sit back and look at yourself and go I'm not happy. I'm not the person that I set out to try to be. I have to let go of this person who I actually might love to become a better version of myself.

Courtney: Also sometimes . . .

Stephanie: Boy, bye.

Courtney: Sometimes you love someone and you're like hmm, compatibility is . . .

Stephanie: Oh, yeah.

Courtney: There's some stuff in there that's like you're 80% soulmates but it's like 80% soulmates? Come on!

Stephanie: That's an amazing wedding toast. These people are 80% soulmates.

Courtney: It's not that romantic!

Stephanie: Good luck to them. We hope they have many children.

Courtney: It's like maybe if you're 65 80% is great. But she's not . . . 

Aminatou: What apps do you use?

Stephanie: Raya.

Stephanie: Oh, I want to hear all about . . .

Aminatou: Oh, is this the celebrity one?

Stephanie: Please explain. Please explain.

Stephanie: Yes.

Courtney: So we're on there.

Stephanie: Raya is basically Tinder but it's a little more vetted and you have to pay for the service.

Stephanie: How much do you pay?

Stephanie: I think it's $70.99 a month or something.

Stephanie: What?

Courtney: Wait, 70?

Stephanie: No, 7.99. Not 70. I'm sorry. Sorry, no. $8 love life. No.

Stephanie: But don' you have to be pretty and famous to use it?


Stephanie: I mean I think you have to have a certain amount of Instagram followers or something.

Stephanie: [Laughs] Okay.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Courtney: It's a hustle.

Stephanie: There's a lot of models. It's very distressing.

Aminatou: Who's on it? Like who have you seen?

Courtney: Jeremy Piven.

Stephanie: Jeremy . . . [Laughter] Matthew Berry, you guys. Matthew Berry is on it.

Courtney: Patrick Schwarzenegger.

Stephanie: Patrick Schwarzenegger. Ruby Rose who I've not matched with.

Stephanie: Oh!

Stephanie: I would enjoy that very much.

Aminatou: She has a new girlfriend I think, right?

Stephanie: No!

Aminatou: Oh, sorry. Wait, are you open to dating ladies?

Stephanie: I am open to dating ladies. Yes, I am.

Aminatou: Oh.

Stephanie: Actually I'm so open to dating ladies that I forgot that I was not publicly out and I retweeted something that was like Aubrey Plaza in an interview that was like "I love ladies and they love me." And I was like yep. Then my Twitter was like blah! Exploded.

Courtney: Was this before or after Ghostbusters?

Stephanie: It was slightly after because I was tweeting out a bunch of shit about Kate McKinnon. I was like Kate McKinnon? Everyone go home. Kate McKinnon is my wife.

Courtney: We went to Ghostbusters and I think she remembered that she was a little gay.

Stephanie: I was jumping out of my seat.

Courtney: She was like "Oh! Oh, my, Kate McKinnon."

Stephanie: I mean I didn't remember. It's just like look at Kate McKinnon, fucking Jesus.

Courtney: Inspiring. Inspiring.

Stephanie: Out of the whole row, there were eight of us that went, and our entire row, like that action scene where she comes out with the guns. You guys have seen it. I hope you've seen it.

Courtney: The lick.

Stephanie: The lick!

Stephanie: The lick is everything, yeah. I'm not going to try to do it.

Stephanie: No one can . . .

Aminatou: Court, what are you looking for?

Courtney: Just somebody who likes me back. It's really low. It's just . . . 

Stephanie: Courtney is S to the T to the R to the . . . 

Aminatou: You've given up. You've given up.

Courtney: So, okay -- the timing of the show is great because Monday, literally Monday, I begged a man on the phone to be in a relationship with me and then I got a cell phone ticket while I was still on the phone with this guy.

Stephanie: Pulled over.

Courtney: And I did not let him off the phone.


Stephanie: Didn't hang up the phone!

Stephanie: What were you driving?

Courtney: Talking to the police officer on Melrose. They're so sneaky. And it took me legit like three minutes to be like "No, that was the self-esteem police and you need to get off the phone with this guy and you need to pick yourself up off the ground."

Aminatou: We're going to pray for you.

Stephanie: We'll light a candle. Light a candle.

Stephanie: We're also going to use self-esteem police because I feel like sometimes you'll be like I need to call in a report.

Courtney: I know. I should've called in myself.

Aminatou: So what's the movie that you shot?

Stephanie: The movie is very topical. Here we go. We're going to get dark. You guys ready? So we all know the Sanford rape case, right? So that letter that she wrote, this movie is basically that latter. So most movies about rape are sort of looked at from a political lens or they're sort of looked at through the judicial system. But I've never seen them -- or they're looked at as a revenge fantasy. Like a lot of times it's a revenge fantasy where she goes and finds the guy and murders him or whatever, which is not the reality. The reality is this happens all the time to women and they're left trying to put together the pieces of who they were in their lives. And so this movie, The Light of the Moon, it's about this young woman who lives in Brooklyn and she's got this boyfriend that's like well, he's kind of questionable. Maybe he's not right for her. She's got a good job, great friends. She goes out one night drinking and she gets raped -- violently raped. [Alarm] Oh, there's an alarm going off. Wow.

Stephanie: Someone has like a rape trigger.

Aminatou: Is that the birth control alarm? What are you waking up for at this time? 

Stephanie: [Laughs]

Courtney: You would've missed it, okay? Because we're in the middle.

Stephanie: So the movie is sort of about what it's like for the survivor/victim, like what it's like to sort of put your life back together after that. Do you tell people? Do you tell your friends? How do you have sex with your boyfriend after that? How are you a whole person? How do you come back to a version of yourself that you feel okay about?


Courtney: I feel like it tackles it in the same way -- I'm blanking on the name of that movie, but the abortion movie from a couple years ago.

Stephanie: Oh, Obvious Child with Jenny Slate.

Courtney: Obvious Child, right? It humanizes it.

Stephanie: It's not as funny as . . .

Courtney: No, no, no. Totally. But it humanizes it in the same way.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Courtney: I feel like the content is not normally dealt with in that way, which is awesome. I feel like we need to make more stuff like that.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Aminatou: We'll be on the lookout for it.

Stephanie: Please do.

Aminatou: Thanks so much for joining us.

Courtney: Thanks for having us! This is amazing!

Stephanie: FYI, part of why we started the podcast is because we realized we were not passing the Bechdel Test in most of our life and you guys pass it hardcore.

Aminatou: Thank you. Thank you.

Stephanie: It is so inspiring to listen to you all the time and think like right, I'm so much more than this little part of myself. I'm all these other things.

Courtney: Right. When we get annoyed with ourselves you guys are on our altar and we're like yes!

Stephanie: Yes!

Courtney: That's where we want to go.

Stephanie: Those two.

Courtney: So thank you.

Aminatou: Thank you!

Stephanie: Thank you!

Stephanie: Bye!

Stephanie: Take your wine. Take it with you.


Stephanie: So we have a voicemail box. It's one of the many throwback things about our podcast.

Aminatou: I know. I forget we have a voicemail box.

Stephanie: We forget to check it a lot, but listeners sometimes leave us questions and we decided that we would listen and answer one of them tonight.

Essy: Hi there, this is Essy from Madison, Wisconsin. I've been thinking a lot about intergenerational friendship between women and I was wondering if you had anything to say about that. And I'm a 23-year-old and in the past few weeks I've met some really awesome older women that I'd like to befriend and I want to know how to do it and I'm a little bit scared because I worry that they think I'm too young and not really worth their time. So if you ever have a chance to talk about that on the podcast, that'd be awesome. Thank you.

Awesome: Aww.


Aminatou: I know, right?

Stephanie: I mean making friends insecurities are real at every age.

Aminatou: I know, but intergenerational making friend insecurities, wow, that's like a lot. This question was really interesting to ask because I think it cuts a lot into what we are trying to make. I think that we are both really lucky in that we have awesome women of every age in our lives that we consider friends. Some of them are even in the audience tonight so thank you for coming.

Stephanie: Multigenerational friends.

Aminatou: I know. You know, but I don't know. It's like this question, yeah, it was really . . . on one hand it was hard to listen to this woman say "I'm 23 and I'm not -- I don't feel awesome enough and I think I'm too young or whatever." And I think I really want her to shed that baggage because I think that one of the richnesses of especially having intergenerational friendships with women is that you become really inspired by their confidence and by the wisdom that they have. You can kind of -- at least for me -- see yourself there and say oh my god, every day you shed more fucks. There are no more fucks left to give.

Stephanie: Molting. Molting fucks, yeah.

Aminatou: But at the same time I think that it's also -- you know, it's a really important feminist tenet is to not just look at your squad. Really build bonds across generations. I don't know, what do you think Ann?

Stephanie: Yeah. There's definitely something where you . . . there are socially-coded ways that you are supposed to feel about women who are maybe younger or maybe older than you are that do not line up with reality. And I definitely want younger women to think that I'm cool. I found out that a 22-year-old said I was cool recently and I'm like oh my god, thank you. Thank you so much. [Laughter] I was like accepting an award, an invisible award. But this idea of you are -- because you're supposed to be ashamed to be aging as a woman that you are in a different place or somehow pitted against women who are younger than you, I don't know. Female friendship that crosses generational barriers can diffuse that I feel.


Aminatou: I know. I think spiritually I feel 63. I've always been really attracted to older ladies.

Stephanie: I didn't know that.

Aminatou: No, it's true. It's like the age I want to be. I'm so ready. I'm so ready.

Stephanie: Wait, who is 63 right now? Do you know?

Aminatou: Who is 63 right now? I don't know. Hills is like 70s.

Stephanie: Yeah, older.

Aminatou: Meryl is probably 60s, right?

Stephanie: Don't know.

Aminatou: Angela Bassett is very late 50s, so she's almost.

Stephanie: Perpetually very late 50s. [Laughs]

Aminatou: I know, she's like . . . Cicely Tyson is 94 and I look at her and I'm like oh my god, you look amazing. That's what I want to look like. I don't know. I think that you're right, this question about aging and feeling shame about it and also just not -- I don't know, young people are assholes. We're all assholes. You don't make room for other people in your life and you don't make room for wisdom. And there's, I don't know, I want more kindness.

Stephanie: I like that. I know. Let the slow clap build. [Laughs]

Aminatou: It's true. If there are older ladies in your life that you admire you should tell them. You should tell them and you should, you know, not be a jerk about it, and I don't know, make room for them in your life.

Stephanie: You should also drink with them.

Aminatou: Yes.

Stephanie: I feel there is something about the one-on-one relationship that can happen when . . . I think a lot of people meet women who are older than they are at work, or maybe in settings where it's a little weird to be like "Can we hang out?" Taking it to the realm of no, I actually want to be your friend in a deliberate way.

Aminatou: Now I'm just like we need a guide for how do you seduce the older ladies at your office and just become their friends? I feel like good fashion decisions is also a part of this.

Stephanie: It's true.


Aminatou: They always look great. They always look great.

Stephanie: Yeah. I mean the answer is try. I think the answer to her is just try.

Aminatou: Yeah, it's try. And don't make assumptions. Honestly all of your assumptions are based on garbage society standards that don't line up with reality.

Stephanie: Right, and that older woman probably actually wants to be your friend. Yeah, okay.

Aminatou: That's true. Great note to end on. Thanks for coming everyone. [Cheering]


Stephanie: I know.

Aminatou: We have so many thank yous, this is going to be like a church service.

Stephanie: It's going to be like the Academy Awards.

Aminatou: I know.

Stephanie: But it's going to be -- okay.

Aminatou: I want to thank God.

Stephanie: I don't want to thank God.

Aminatou: I want to thank science.

Stephanie: Okay, you can find us on iTunes and many other places online. We are callyrgf on Gmail, Instagram, Twitter, Tumblr. You have Google. Check out our brand new web shop at callyourgirlfriend.com. We have lots of cute merch.

Aminatou: Special thanks to our guests Steph Beatrix, Courtney Kocak, especially at the Ace Team especially DJ Stacey Wood. Hashtag sponsored. Our wine sponsor, Club W. You can sign up for their monthly wine delivery service at calubw.com/cyg.

Stephanie: Ugh, the thank you list continues. Okay, our merch maven Caroline Knolls who's not here, love you. Local merch, [0:37:20] Lynn. Love you. Paparazzo Jorge Rivas, our lawyer Quinn Hirade, Kenesha Sneed for making us look so good, Jackie Boltick our newsletter guru. So many people.

Aminatou: So many people. Happy birthday Phil Bailey.

Stephanie: Happy birthday Phil!

Aminatou: Phil! And this podcast is produced by Gina Delvac.

Stephanie: Gina D! [Cheering] 

Together: See you on the Internet!

Aminatou: Bye, y'all.

Stephanie: Thank you.