A Well-Dressed Monster is Still a Monster
Published October 19, 2018.
Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend. Ann: A podcast for long-distance besties everywhere. Aminatou: I'm Aminatou Sow. Ann: And I'm Ann Friedman. On this week's agenda Elizabeth Warren's terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad DNA test decision; practical magic and our practical questions about it; Melania, her looks, and how a well-dressed monster is still a monster; plus Taylor and Kanye's role reversal. [Theme Song] (1:50) Aminatou: Coming at you live from Guerneville, California! Ann: Coming at you live from one giant bed where we are sitting together and with Gina with three laptops and recording equipment and no one is even touching. That's how big it is. Aminatou: This bed is so lit, but you know what else is lit is Gina's pattern clashing right now is epic. Ann: Iconic. Not even the socks. So let's start. We have so much to talk about today. Aminatou: Whew, girl. Ann: Yeah, I mean the first thing being we're about to go on tour. Aminatou: Yes, we're about to go on tour. Callyourgirlfriend.com/tour. We have some really fun guests. Ann: Oh my god. Aminatou: [0:02:29] in Seattle, Alicia Garza in San Francisco, and many more who will be announced so buy your tickets now and we can't wait to see you. Ann: Yeah, and also do us a favor. Text your besties who are in cities where we are coming on tour and give them the hot tip to show up because we have set some ambitious ticket sales goals and this family's going to have to pull together to meet them. [Laughs] Aminatou: That's right. Mama's got shoes to buy, so callyourgirlfriend.com/tour. Ann: Fabulous. Okay, so now onto -- I mean it's hard to say even on to the news as if it's one monolith. On to the dozens of overlapping things that we need to talk about in the news. Aminatou: There's -- I feel that this week has felt kind of like a Chappelle skit. It's just like too much nonsense is happening and every time Dave Chappelle, the president, just like runs off from the table. [Laughs] But it's just -- all of it is just bad. Ann: Okay, I think we have to start with Elizabeth Warren. Aminatou: [Sighs] Ann: That is 100% how I feel. Why? Why, why, why, why, why? Aminatou: You know why. What you are talking about is Elizabeth Warren releasing this kind of for a political video bomb-ass biographical video where she goes back to Oklahoma -- people always forget she's from Oklahoma, shout-out Oklahoma -- where she goes back to Oklahoma and she's talking to all her family, a lot of them happen to be Republicans, and she basically challenges the Trump Pocahontas narrative about her. (4:10) So if you haven't been paying attention the person that Donald Trump is always calling Pocahontas is Elizabeth Warren because Elizabeth Warren has claimed to be Cherokee Indian at various stages of her life. And the whole thing is very fascinating. So anyway in the video she talks to a genealogist. She's done some like 23andMe DNA test so she is like this is her coming out as stop lying on my family, we are actually Cherokee Indians. The whole thing is very . . . I feel a lot of feelings about it, because one, the timing is like are you kidding me? We have a lot of work to do right now. Like Beto is trailing in Texas; can we get him across the finish line? You know, there's just a lot going on so the timing is weird and it definitely feels like a running in 2020 type . . . Ann: Yeah, this is not a fall 2018 concern. Aminatou: Right, which is one issue. You know, at the heart of it though I do appreciate the boldness of coming hard at somebody who is beefing at you. It's very rapper beef. But the tactics here are very problematic. Let's not even get into the fact that DNA kits do not tell you anything about race. Ann: Like how did the DNA kit white retiree scam enter into a popular norm where now we just accept that this somehow reveals a truth about yourself? Aminatou: It's because people conflate genealogy with race things with finding out more about your own family. You know, like I understand why people use those things. I've done 23andMe and was fascinated by it. But the results do not paint the picture that you think that they paint. So, you know, to get a genealogy situation where they're like some time long, long, long ago there was maybe a Cherokee Indian in your family is not what makes you Native in this country and it's actually very offensive to all of the Native tribes that fight so hard for citizenship. (6:25) Like it's such a slap in the face, especially in a week where, you know, there are actual serious Native issues that are in conversation, i.e. in North Dakota the Supreme Court has basically stated that the only way to have a valid voter identification document is if the address corresponds to your street address. The problem with that is people who live in reservations only have P.O. boxes because that's what the USPS gives them. And so when I think about something like that that is so outrageous, to have somebody come out and try to do like race warfare based on a DNA kit is really . . . it's a hard pill to swallow. Ann: Well, and she has been -- Elizabeth Warren being the she here -- spoken out about this voter ID and registration issue in North Dakota specifically. But I'm like why couldn't you just stop there? I mean really it's one of those things where when you look at her official bio, like separate from Trump trying to make a thing of this, there are things like her being described as Harvard law's "first woman of color." There are things like her being listed as a Native American professor. Stuff like that where I'm like okay, this really smacks of not being able to acknowledge how your privilege is formed and how you are -- you know, what is the cultural context you come from? How have you really moved through the world for your whole life? And the answer is that is not based on a percentage of your DNA which is exactly what you were saying. And it's like there is a way to kind of acknowledge that you feel connected to, you know, maybe the Cherokee community for example by making those issues of importance to your campaign and you can do that without being like "Hello, this is like a primary identity marker for me." (8:24) Aminatou: Yeah, you know? And it's so interesting too because I'm glad that you brought up privilege because as we know on this podcast race is a construct. [Laughs] Ann: I'm glad you brought up privilege, subtitle of this podcast. [Laughs] Aminatou: You know, race is a construct. Ann: Yep. Aminatou: And so -- because let's be honest, Elizabeth Warren is not the only person who does this or who has done this. It is actually very common I would say for most Americans to claim some sort of far-back Indian heritage, like a lot of black people do it, a lot of white people do it. It's a thing that happens. But when you have that on the backdrop of literally not acknowledging the rights and humanity of Native people day-to-day the optics are not great. And also when you do that it really invalidates people whose lived identity is that. And so it's fascinating to watch this whole Elizabeth Warren v. Trump when no one is actually listening to what the Native people have to say. Ann: Yeah, and I think that part of what's so frustrating about this decision is it does not seem to be rooted in dialogue with people of the identity that she is claiming. It seems like it is . . . Aminatou: Dialogue with Trump. (9:45) Ann: Exactly. It is dialogue with the exact person you do not need to be in dialogue with about this issue. Aminatou: I know. You know the other thing too that makes me really upset is it just brings back all the feelings of Obama releasing his birth certificate. Ann: Totally. Aminatou: Which I understand why they do it. My eyes are wide open to how they get backed into a corner, but generally as a tactic from people from the left I hate it. I was like I hate it. Stop showing your receipts of where you're from and how you are formed. These people already don't believe you. That's not the point. The point is not that Donald Trump thinks that Elizabeth Warren is lying about her identity. The point is that he knows that saying something racially insensitive scores him points with his base. Ann: Right. And therefore the idea that you're trying to counteract that with a document just doesn't work. I mean like Trump's base, they know Obama is a black man right? Like they see him and identify him as a black man. That is what is at issue. It is not a paperwork question. It is in fact the exact opposite of say Trump not producing his tax returns, right? Which that is a paperwork question. Aminatou: Yes. Ann: That is not an identity question. Ugh. Aminatou: Ugh. But you know generally I am super-interested in how family lore is told like that. Ann: Yes, completely. Aminatou: You know, and how these stories exist because people pass them down. People have imaginations of what their families used to be. DNA tests are huge right now. I was reading this thing in the Times where I think it's something crazy like 60% of European-looking people are all in DNA -- are findable in a DNA database. Ann: Wow. Aminatou: You know they recently caught the Golden State killer via DNA database so this is all very exciting. Maybe they'll catch the Zodiac killer next, Ted Cruz's dad, and then we'll find out. Ann: Not while he's still running. Aminatou: [Laughs] This stuff is fascinating but it is also really . . . it is really wild to watch our technology try to catch up to the stories that our families -- like the stories that we tell each other, and watch how it turns out that everything is more complicated. (12:08) Ann: Yeah. I mean and also the way it really highlights that specifically I think a lot of white American family lore is about highlighting hardship in it, like hardship of a certain, you know, previous generation's way. I wouldn't say it's about highlighting trauma because every family loves to bury that but I would say certain types of stories about like oh, you know, this is how we worked so hard to acquire this property. Aminatou: Mayflower. [Laughs] Ann: This is the struggle we faced on like . . . Aminatou: Right, you need a good story to tell to justify how you ended up on this rock. Ann: Exactly, and I think that when it comes to particularly white people in America -- not all, whatever, that is a really broad term -- but a lot of white families have stories about overcoming hardship as justification for essentially how much power and privilege and wealth they have today. Even though we have enjoyed literally every privilege of American society on a policy level, on a wealth level, we still have this tiny aspect of our biography that means we worked for it and therefore it is narratively important to white family narratives. Aminatou: I mean it's also like a great distancing tool right? Ann: Totally. Aminatou: It's like if you can dredge up any kind of claim to the actual Native land you -- also what you're doing is distancing yourself from the white supremacy that fucked up the Native land. Ann: Exactly. Oh, 100%. I mean and also this idea that, look, no one is deciding what kind of access and privilege you have based on what percentage of your blood is XYZ. That's how we know race is a social, cultural . . . race is defined by people. Aminatou: Race is a scam. It's a big scam. (14:00) Ann: Yes. I mean maybe the ultimate scam, a top scam. Aminatou: Top scam. Definitely top three scams. Ann: Right, yeah. And it's really -- I think what is just so difficult is I've also been thinking about this story in the context of that piece Rebecca Traister wrote last year about Elizabeth Warren in the public narrative being Hillaried in the sense of her being painted as more conservative than she really is. And stories like this really make me question that. When I think about a lot of my least-favorite things about Hillary it has to do with not being nuanced on issues that I think are of great importance and not trusting the public to grapple with nuance. And this story, it feels very evocative of some of my most disappointing moments with Hillary when I consume these news articles about Elizabeth Warren and her DNA. Aminatou: I mean to be fair, or not to be fair I guess too . . . to be real. [Laughs] Ann: To be real. Aminatou: Part of the problem with all of American politics is our elected treat us like we're fucking idiots every single time, you know? So the fact that this is where the circus is at right now, people are literally doing DNA testing and releasing results, that says so much more about where American polarized politics are at than it says about individual candidates and it is so beneath all of the people who participate in it. Ann: Yeah, but I guess what I'm trying to say is if you're participating you are signaling that it's not beneath you and that is what's disappointing to me. Like you still have a choice and you still have agency. I don't know what kind of consultants she's paying that are like this is a great idea but wow, build a new tent. Don't climb into the ring with these clowns. Aminatou: Stay tuned. Stay tuned. [Music] (16:38) Aminatou: Okay, do you want to talk about something even more polarizing than politics? Ann: I mean . . . [Laughs] Aminatou: I'm talking about the cult movie Practical Magic, Ann, that turned 20. Ann: I was actually considering your question seriously. Aminatou: [Laughs] Ann: I was like do I? Do I want to disagree with you about something? Okay, tell me what. Aminatou: Well, listen, you and I, we were stoned and we watched Practical Magic and I'm happy to report that we did not finish it because that is how terrible it was. I am a completist. I will watch anything. The fact that I couldn't finish this movie, I am shaking currently. Ann: To be fair we also didn't finish Jumanji starring Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. Aminatou: I know, but we were tired. [Laughs] Jumanji is an excellent movie. Ann: But yeah, Practical Magic, I would say this, it is this kind of like . . . there's a formula for cult classic, like a specific type of cult classic, which is take a couple of white women who haven't completely blown themselves up in the public eye. Aminatou: I mean they were like -- so Nicole Kidman and . . . Ann: Sandy B. (17:45) Aminatou: Sandy B were kind of new babies. Like Nicole Kidman would never play this role anymore. Ann: Exactly. So I think that's part of it, they have to be people who have continued on a greater career trajectory within Hollywood and haven't done something super horrific problematic and haven't fallen off the face of the earth. So they did this kind of kitschy thing 30 years in the past. You have to add witches or some kind of seasonal twist because I think a lot of holiday movies benefit from this. And basically, you know, put it in the closet with your kombucha or whatever and let it age for 30 years. Aminatou: I know, but this movie was like -- when it came out it was very terribly reviewed. Ann: Yeah, that's what I mean. That's how you get cult. Aminatou: That is how you get cult. But I guess what I'm saying is the scam of this movie that people are remembering fondly as some sort of feminist witch situation . . . Ann: Because they kill an abusive boyfriend. Aminatou: Yeah, and I was like first of all if you're casting love spells feminism canceled. That's not how that works. Ann: Hello? Consent. Aminatou: Right. If you're casting heterosexual feminist -- if you are casting what is the . . . what? If you're casting heterosexual love spells, scam on. That's what's going on here. So I like . . . I'm just really frustrated by -- and I'm sure this happens to all of us. You know when you watch something later as an adult that people watch when they're kids and there's so much nostalgia and fondness to it? Ann: Yeah, we've talked about this before. It's why I've never seen Goonies. Aminatou: Goonies never die. [Laughs] There is just something -- you know, like I watched Princess Bride for the first time as a fully-formed adult. (19:45) Ann: Yeah, you can't do that. I have another thought about Practical Magic which is just like it's so confusing. Like there's this scene where Sandra Bullock is fully asleep in bed. You know, it's kind of like day, night, seasons, none of that really exists in Practical Magic. Aminatou: Spooky season. It's spooky season at all times in Practical Magic. Ann: Spooky season but you never need more than one yummy sweater. It's never that cold, it's never that hot. She's dead asleep in bed and then Nicole Kidman comes and wakes her up and is like -- from a cold sleep, presumably in the evening -- and is like "It's margarita time!" and she leaps out of bed and runs downstairs and then with their aunts they're singing Lime and the Coconut and making margaritas. I'm like if my sister woke me up in the middle of the night and was like "It's margarita time" I would not be going downstairs in a drafty farmhouse in cozy season to make margaritas. Who are these people? Aminatou: Witches, Ann. They're witches. [Laughs] You're not paying attention. They are witches. Yeah, I mean the whole movie doesn't make sense. Remember how Sandy B goes from being this homey baby witch into a babe like the minute that she spots the dude that she ends up marrying? Ann: The whole movie is about men they want to marry. Aminatou: I know, the whole thing is -- the whole thing makes no sense. Anyway happy 20th birthday to Practical Magic. You know, I will say this though: Sandy B, national treasure. Ann: I mean this is kind of what I mean about the let things rest for 30 years and then they're cult classics. I mean you know what else doesn't hold up? The Craft. Aminatou: [Laughs] I don't even think The Craft held up then. Ann: It definitely didn't but that's the kind of thing where it is a staple of I would say the cult classic outdoor movie screening season now and it is unwatchable. I mean I guess . . . Aminatou: I know, racism. Ann: Yes. Aminatou: A lot of problems. Ann: So I don't know. Like just because there's witches in it and it was made 30 years ago does not mean it's a classic. And even though we've canceled Bette Midler I would say that Hocus Pocus is an appealing alternative in the retro witch category. (21:55) Aminatou: Ann, we need to discuss Bette Midler. No one has canceled Bette Midler. Bette Midler canceled herself. Ann: Right, thank you. Let's be precise. Aminatou: So let's explain to people what happened. Bette Midler, prolific tweeter Bette Midler and patron saint of spooky season [Laughs] on the first week of spooky season, a.k.a. the first week of October, decided that it would be a great time to tweet out Yoko Ono's favorite quote "Women are the N word of the world." This quote is amazing. Actually I'm going to rant about this for so many minutes. First of all Yoko Ono was wrong when she said it then and I cannot believe people did not understand how fucked up it was that she said that. But most importantly the Yoko Ono bastardization of that quote is actually from Zora Neale Hurston which is basically saying the woman is the mule of the world. So when women who are not black go from mule to calling people literal niggers I have -- I'm like wait, where is this leap of imagination coming from? Like the racism jumped out. And so yeah, it was not okay in the 19-mur-mur-murs when Yoko Ono did it. It's certainly not okay when Bette Midler did it at the height of spooky season meaning that none of us are going to enjoy Hocus Pocus this year because . . . Ann: She ruined it. She ruined it for all of us. Aminatou: She ruined it. Ruined. It's ruined. But it was like amazing to watch her on Twitter double-down and then the publicist literally take the keys and be like "Ma'am, it's spooky season. This is your moment to shine." Ann: I still maintain that Hocus Pocus as a standalone piece of art. (23:50) Aminatou: Standalone piece of art. [Laughs] Ann: I'm sorry, it is a standalone piece of art. Aminatou: We're going on a break. [Laughter] [Music and Ads] (26:35) Ann: Okay, this is a great transition from spooky season to even spookier season. Aminatou: Talk to me. Ann: Melania's hats. Aminatou: [Laughs] Okay, I have long maintained that one of the worst things about this presidency for me personally -- for me, not for the country, but for me, Aminatou Sow, is that we can't discuss most of Melania and Ivanka's outfits because it feels trivial when they're literally putting children in cages. But Melania really outdid herself on this Africa trip. She is straight-up doing colonizer cosplay. Ann: Melania's Halloween costume is definitely ghost of colonialism. Aminatou: Yeah, no, it's like Tin Tin goes to Congo. That's what she was doing. [Laughter] Those shots of her in Egypt in the full Tin Tin with the pith helmet, like that . . . like RIP Aminatou Sow. I cannot handle. Ann: I mean speaking of things so firmly in your Venn you've got to build a house there. Aminatou: [Laughs] But the best thing too is she's clearly having -- you know, any time she's not with her husband she's always having a blast. It's like take her to a funeral, she's laughing with everybody. Send her to Africa. Ann: Put her on a Jeep. Yeah. (27:55) Aminatou: I know, put her on a Jeep. Did you see when the elephant almost knocked her out? That was amazing. But she just comes to life. But the thing about Melania, you know, the scam of Melania is that everybody wants -- there's like this public narrative, the #FreeMelania hashtag, right? Where she's supposedly doing resistance from the inside, you know? And it's like we need to save her. Yo, Melania is in deep with these people. She took the entire trip as an opportunity to pay attention to her good works and not her outfits. If you didn't wear costumes we would actually pay attention to what you're doing. And she gave this bananas interview where, one, she said she's the most bullied person on the face of the planet. I LOLed. I was like you're married to the biggest bully in America. But also totally defended her "I don't care, do you?" Zara . . . Ann: "I don't really care, do you?" Aminatou: "I don't really care, do you?" Zara jacket that she wore. She was on her way to visit the detention centers for minors on the border. Ann: Yeah, children that her husband had put in fact in cages. Aminatou: And speaking of our politics being bananas again and the game just being disgusting this is part of it. I was like you are a person in public life. You are the first lady of the United States. You can't be sending messages on your jacket. What is wrong with you? Ann: But here's what I love -- here's what I love about the fact that that interview about the jacket came in such quick succession to her being on this media tour is supposedly the message of the jacket and the people she doesn't care about are the media. Aminatou: [Laughs] (29:45) Ann: And then she's like "Hi, I'm on tour. Pay attention to me." And it's like you don't get it all ways. It's like ugh, don't look at me; look at me. Like I can't even handle. Aminatou: I know! And during that interview she said some more banana stuff about how she stands by all her husband's policies. She says that the women who accuse people in the Me Too movement have to come with a lot of proof. Just everything to the Trump line. It's like this woman is a Trump through and through and through again. We don't need to free her. We don't need to save her. I wish we could discuss her outfits more but truly this is bonkers. Ann: Okay, so while we are living in this place momentarily of outfits you wish you could discuss, like other than the jacket which is -- like we basically discuss her looks when they have a deeper meaning for the terrible policies that she is one of the faces of. Aminatou: Listen, she's had some bomb outfits. Ann: Okay, but this is what I'm saying. I want to just make sure you get a chance, because what if we never return to this moment, to shout out a favorite -- or a Melania look that you would steal. Aminatou: Oh my god, her Jackie Kennedy inauguration blue? So good. Ann: Agreed. Agreed. That was going to be my answer. Aminatou: I was so sad, couldn't talk about it. It's been two years now. That outfit was amazing. Ann: I mean the gloves? Aminatou: Yeah. Ann: And also it's basically here is -- I'm like it's a jacket, it's a T-neck, it's a wrap all in one? Like all of my favorite items. Aminatou: Ugh. Hold on, I'm going to tell you another one. Ann: I hate that we're doing this but also it feels kind of cathartic. Aminatou: [Laughs] I'm glad we can finally say the truth. You know, her pantsuit game is also untouchable. She does it really, really, really well and she also wore this floral number that I was really, really into. And remember when they went to the Vatican and she dressed like a widow? Dress for the job you want. [Laughs] Ann: Yeah. Okay, but that's part of the Free Melania meme. That is not the job . . . (31:55) Aminatou: I know. I'm just saying she has a lot of drama. Also I think it was at the convention maybe she wore this pink situation. All I'm saying is the woman does color very well. If she had been married to a different kind of monster we would have a like The Cut her best outfits every day. Look into them. Ann: Right. We've all just agreed that this is a thing we don't do. Yeah. Aminatou: Right. We can't do this. Even Hope Hicks had some bomb outfits. Remember that tuxedo that she wore to that Japan state dinner? Ann: Yes. Aminatou: I literally gasped. Ann: Do you remember Ivanka's mint green Sandro suit? Aminatou: Oh, that she wore for Kim? [Laughs] Ann: Yes, that she basically selected for Kim but also good move. Aminatou: I know! It was great. But you know what? They're all monsters so sorry. Ann: They're all monsters. A monster in a mint green Sandro suit is still a monster. Aminatou: I know! A monster that dresses well is still a monster but well-played. Ann: Hmm. Emphasis on the played. Aminatou: Mm-hmm. Ann: Okay, I don't want to open the entire Kanye conversation but I do feel like this week has been notable. It's basically been notable for celebrities who don't read enough trying to intervene in politics. Aminatou: Oof, Kanye famous for saying that he does not read books. You know it's been a real topsy-turvy week where all Kanye is doing is taking Ls. He's literally in Uganda signing Yeezees for a dictator. He went to the White House, hanging out with another dictator, just doing nonsense. Meanwhile his sworn nemesis American poet Taylor Swift is out here registering voters. (33:45) Ann: I mean, ugh . . . Aminatou: Listen, I'm just saying give credit where credit is due. I think that becoming politically awake no matter when you do it is good. She has a ginormous platform. She finally used it to do something good. Ann: So you're of the better late than never school? (34:00) Aminatou: I mean I still my roll my eyes but sure, you know what I mean? I was like we need -- you know, we need celebrities with ginormous platforms to do get out the vote efforts. I don't need them commenting on anything else but I was like they should be registering people to vote. That would be nice. But also she took an issue that's local to her, so like Tennessee politics. She made some pointed . . . Ann: She had some good advice on this I have to say. Aminatou: Yeah. Ann: The way it was specific candidates, specific issue, a place she had a specific connection to. Aminatou: She waited until her tour was done [Laughs] so that her American listeners who are Republicans don't have to get mad. I was like the whole thing was well played. Ann: Or they could get mad but she wouldn't suffer any financial repercussions from them getting mad. Aminatou: Exactly. Well the thing is so many people have said Taylor is not politically involved at all which always fascinates me because a lot of celebrities are not engaged at all but this particular fascination with her is -- you know, I'm pretty sure we could speculate why, why, why? But I was happy to see her step up when something actually mattered to her and make it personal and explain it. You know, I've divested from all these people: Kanye, Taylor, Kim. I don't participate anymore. Every once in a while I do drive-bys just to see how everybody is living. All I'm saying is I'll give credit when credit is due. Ann: Or when they make major headlines, like throughout a week you're like okay, let's check into this. Aminatou: I know, but Kanye was doing too much. I saw footage of him standing on a table at the Apple Store then he was at the White House and Trump had cleared his whole desk like Kanye was going to rob him. There was nothing on the desk. It was amazing. Ann: I'm not convinced that the desk isn't always just blank. Like he doesn't actually work and he doesn't read so why would you need anything on your desk? Maybe that's just the way it is all the time. (35:55) Aminatou: He does not work or read. You know, I'm just saying that as a student of reality TV it's all too much for me right now. Ann: I understand. I understand. Aminatou: It's just like a lot is happening. Ann: Yeah, and I guess my point of -- like we've talked about warranted celebrity skepticism before which is true even when . . . I think it applies from the late-breaking, newly politically active one specific Instagram post all the way to actors getting labeled in woke bae memes which oh my god, just stop forever and ever. Which is to say that okay, on a certain level you have a bunch of power, you have like cultural capital, and you have a bunch of followers and it is warranted to try to use that for good and not for evil. On the other hand these people are celebrities. Like have a little bit of understanding. Aminatou: Yeah, don't trust them. Ann: Yes, exactly. Aminatou: Don't trust them. They don't read books. They don't know anything. They're all pals at the end of the day, like the powerful people. They truly do not care because they don't suffer any kind of consequences. But also, you know, it's really easy in this moment for powerful people not to participate. Ann: 100%. Aminatou: It was really fascinating to watch Chrissy Teigen. Ann: Teigen, I was just about to say. Did you say the news? Aminatou: Chrissy Teigen. Yes, that is how you say her name. Ann: Makes sense, E-I. Aminatou: Listen, Chrissy Teigen, who routinely goes after people on the Internet. To be fair, people who come after her so it's all . . . Ann: And her family, yeah. Aminatou: In the symbiosis of bad social media and is somebody who is like a resistance figurehead on the comedy side. And be asked about her friends Kim and Kanye this week and . . . Ann: Crickets. Aminatou: You know? Jiminy Cricket, for real. So I believe she said that people are entitled to their opinions and I was like this is really fascinating. It's like this is the place -- you know, and to be fair I don't think you should flag your friends in public if you're a celebrity. Truly your relationships are your relationships, like we don't know. But all it does for me is make me reexamine the ways that I posture publicly and how I act in private and if those two things do not line up you have a big problem. (38:10) Ann: Right, which is a question that anybody who has any kind of presence on a digital platform has to think about. Like it is not only celebrities that have to reconcile a what are you saying publicly and what are you doing privately kind of question. Aminatou: Yeah. You know the other thing too is we actually have serious problems so nobody has time for dumb celebrity shit. And so the thing is if you're going to take up oxygen in the room you might as well do some good with your platform. Ann: Well and that's where I get really cynical which is to say because of exactly what you just said, we all have real problems so no one has time for celebrity shit, it's like hmm, that's why we see celebrities -- not all, but certain celebrities entering politics because it's like that's where the momentum and the attention is. And so recognizing that they also see a benefit from saying something. Aminatou: Absolutely. It's like why celebrities entered into activism to start with and then I am convinced that one day only famous people will run for office. Ann: Oh, 100%. Aminatou: These are the choices that we'll have. Can't wait for my president Nori Kardashian. Ann: Oh my god, I . . . Aminatou: Okay, we actually have to go but I'm going to give you one last thing to Google. Look up Melania's white hat that she wore when she was with Brigitte Macron. That outfit is one of my favorite Melania outfits. Ann: Also speaking of metaphors, white hat, like we watch Scandal. Aminatou: [Laughs] Ann: I'm like that is a very . . . it is a statement. It is a statement. Aminatou: The handles! [Laughter] It's handles. Ugh, all these scammers. Jesus. Ann: All right. Aminatou: You can find us many places on the Internet, on our website callyourgirlfriend.com. You can download the show anywhere you listen to your favs or on Apple Podcasts where we would love it if you left us a review. You can email us at firstname.lastname@example.org. We're on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook at @callyrgf. You can even leave us a short and sweet voicemail at 714-681-2943. That's 714-681-CYGF. Our theme song is by Robyn. Original music is composed by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs. Our logos are by Kenesha Sneed. Our associate producer is Destry Maria Sibley. This podcast is produced by Gina Delvac. Ann: See you on the Internet. Aminatou: See you in the hot tub. Ann: See you next to me in this giant bed.